If BTC was TC

[FirmWars]

The following would have happened if BTC was Tornado Cash

1. Likely to get banned, for real.
2. Devs will be forced to break the anonymous part.
3. A leader won't come out to support in the open because the opposition party will use it against the leader.
4. A great tool for hiding frauds transactions it is.


The future of Bitcoin looks terrifying to some people right now because those in power are now into Bitcoin, taking every bit of those Satoshi like their lives depend on it.

I get you, I feel the same way too but the part that's missing is the control part.

Even if these centralised freaks of nature takes all BTC available to themselves they can't control yours still, your Bitcoin wallet remain your Bitcoin wallet, the Key remain yours forever meaning only you have access to your fund, which is why I hated banks so much.

Isn't this the reason why most of us prefer Bitcoin?

The only part they can control is price actions.

With Bitcoin, the power of centralization control is far lesser than most thinks.

[Hatchy]

I had a hard time understanding your comparison between Bitcoin and Tornado Cash. Tornado Cash is specifically a mixing service built on the Ethereum blockchain so I wasn't sure what the link to Bitcoin was.

The only part of your post I could relate to is that of the sudden interest of government bodies in Bitcoin. For many years, they were largely opposed to Bitcoin and most cryptocurrencies but it appears their views are evolving.
Despite this shift I don't believe there's any reason to be terrified. Governments buying Bitcoin is no different from anyone else buying it. While they might acquire larger quantities, this doesn't mean they can centralize or control Bitcoin.

The decentralized nature of Bitcoin ensures they can't control it now or in the future. And i agree with your point that their primary influence might be on its price and market liquidity..

[zasad@]

The following would have happened if BTC was Tornado Cash

1. Likely to get banned, for real.
2. Devs will be forced to break the anonymous part.
3. A leader won't come out to support in the open because the opposition party will use it against the leader.
4. A great tool for hiding frauds transactions it is.


The future of Bitcoin looks terrifying to some people right now because those in power are now into Bitcoin, taking every bit of those Satoshi like their lives depend on it.

I get you, I feel the same way too but the part that's missing is the control part.

Even if these centralised freaks of nature takes all BTC available to themselves they can't control yours still, your Bitcoin wallet remain your Bitcoin wallet, the Key remain yours forever meaning only you have access to your fund, which is why I hated banks so much.

Isn't this the reason why most of us prefer Bitcoin?

The only part they can control is price actions.

With Bitcoin, the power of centralization control is far lesser than most thinks.

The developers of Tornado Cash are expecting trials in the near future, which are unlikely to end in an acquittal. But I want to note that the developers of Ethereum have no problems with the law because of this.

According to my statistics, analysts do not know who owns half of the almost 20 million available bitcoins.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5487893

[CryptoYar]

Right thing about Bitcoin is if it faced problems like Tornado Cash its core design prevents anyone from truly controlling it because Bitcoin is totally decentralized. While Bitcoin that hide transactions could be banned and forced to become less private key difference is that no one can take your Bitcoin from you once it is in your own wallet. Even if powerful groups owned much of Bitcoin they can not change how network works or get into your personal wallet.

This you own your keys idea is why many prefer Bitcoin over banks where your money is not really yours. We know big players can affect Bitcoin price but they can not simply shut down network or take your coins if they are properly secured. This freedom from central control is huge reason Bitcoin is so appealing.

[AsvXrin]

The following would have happened if BTC was Tornado Cash

1. Likely to get banned, for real.
2. Devs will be forced to break the anonymous part.
3. A leader won't come out to support in the open because the opposition party will use it against the leader.
4. A great tool for hiding frauds transactions it is.


The future of Bitcoin looks terrifying to some people right now because those in power are now into Bitcoin, taking every bit of those Satoshi like their lives depend on it.

I get you, I feel the same way too but the part that's missing is the control part.

Even if these centralised freaks of nature takes all BTC available to themselves they can't control yours still, your Bitcoin wallet remain your Bitcoin wallet, the Key remain yours forever meaning only you have access to your fund, which is why I hated banks so much.

Isn't this the reason why most of us prefer Bitcoin?

The only part they can control is price actions.

With Bitcoin, the power of centralization control is far lesser than most thinks.

If BTC is like Tornado Cash, it would have been banned already. Rich people are buying up as much as they can.

But the good thing is they cant control your wallet. If you hold your keys, your btc is safe>

They can play with the price but they cant take whats yours.

Thats why i trust btc.

[Doan9269]

The following would have happened if BTC was Tornado Cash

1. Likely to get banned, for real.
2. Devs will be forced to break the anonymous part.
3. A leader won't come out to support in the open because the opposition party will use it against the leader.
4. A great tool for hiding frauds transactions it is.

If they cant bring down bitcoin, then other privacy support channels too cant be stopped by our leader.

They had tried bitcoin in so many ways and still trying, but they cant get to achieve a success through their various attacks launched, all they don't want from us is the privacy we had, which tornado also supports, the same way we see with mixers, but when things like this hap[pens, our government will term it on something else, because they wanted to have control over our assets.

Bitcoin is the main reason why we are living a free financial life under a decentralized economy, some may only have to learn about using bitcoin in a more secured way, such as bitcoincore, running of bitcoin full node and using a non custodial means for our asset, which support privacy from how we engage the use of bitcoin.

[reagansimms]

Unfortunately, Bitcoin is not Tornado Cash, so these things are just illusions that will never come true. Everyone who is directly involved with Bitcoin can certainly differentiate between the two because their functions and purposes are very different. Bitcoin is a crypto asset that allows peer-to-peer transactions without involving a third party, while Tornado Cash is designed to improve privacy developed on the Ethereum blockchain.

I don't know where this topic is going, but this comparison is very unrealistic because what Bitcoin offers is not something that can be duplicated by other developers, besides, Bitcoin has existed long before Tornado Cash or Ethereum were born. Bitcoin power has been built naturally, its decentralized nature makes both retail and institutional investors eager to own it.

[PrivacyG]

1. Likely to get banned, for real.

Monero is anonymous.  I do not know that much about Tornado but I presume it is less private and anonymous than Monero.  It is not YET banned however.  Why would Bitcoin be?

2. Devs will be forced to break the anonymous part.

Developers of Monero were not forced to break the anonymous part.  Even if they were, we can move on from Monero to another fork that is not compromised.  But way before it actually gets compromised, audits are done by people who are skilled at coding and are also scared of their government spying on them.  They would find out about the gap in anonymity and action would immediately be taken.

It is not that simple.

4. A great tool for hiding frauds transactions it is.

Cool.  I have some United States Dollars and I can hide SO much fraud with it!  Is it a problem however?  Why would you have a problem with the United States Dollar, are you a terrorist or what?

Tools for hiding fraud transactions are all around us.  It does not mean they should be banned particularly considering there is no actual proof that a large chunk of the Monero, Tornado Cash, Mixers or any other tools have been used for fraud.  And by large chunk I do not mean one person moving millions in fraud versus the rest moving 'clean' hundreds.  I mean a large chunk of the PEOPLE using it.

Say Bitcoin is actually banned due to a handful of people using it illegally.  While Bitcoin is gone, fraud is still not.  In fact, it is alive and very well.  How many steps is the ban of privacy away from us then?  If they ban Bitcoin because some fraud exists in its ecosystem, why would they not oblige us to give up all privacy so they can find ALL the fraudsters?

[Jawhead999]

I don't understand with your analogy, Bitcoin is a currency, Tornado Cash is a service, they both are different thing.

It's better to compare with Monero, it's an anonymous cryptocurrency.

1. Likely to get banned, for real.
2. Devs will be forced to break the anonymous part.
3. A leader won't come out to support in the open because the opposition party will use it against the leader.
4. A great tool for hiding frauds transactions it is.

So far, Monero developers are still maintain Monero to be anonymous coins, rest of them are like what you said.

If you only care about full control over your coins and don't care with the price, isn't Monero is also fill this requirement? even better Monero survives alone, no countries adopt Monero.

[Sticky Bomb]

The future of Bitcoin looks terrifying to some people right now because those in power are now into Bitcoin, taking every bit of those Satoshi like their lives depend on it.

Yes, it looks terrifying because institutional adoption now exceeds investor adoption and not to mention that government can influence institutions decision and control them to a large extent, so if they have most bitcoins than actual investors, then centralization is winning against decentralization and this is not a good thing for bitcoin.

I get you, I feel the same way too but the part that's missing is the control part.

Even if these centralised freaks of nature takes all BTC available to themselves they can't control yours still, your Bitcoin wallet remain your Bitcoin wallet, the Key remain yours forever meaning only you have access to your fund, which is why I hated banks so much.

If they take all, how do you get more? You would be forced to do KYC in order to get more bitcoin therefore giving centralization the upper hand. DEX Protocols would be weakened with few BTC in their treasury if the government and institutions gets all BTC in circulation and you must do KYC  to get more.

With Bitcoin, the power of centralization control is far lesser than most thinks.

That was the design, now centralized bodies are accumulating the lion share of the cake. If it continues this way, then their centralization control is getting higher every passing minute.

[Ucy]

TC (or things like that) makes it hard for transactions to be tracked. Bitcoin is not designed this way, it's very transparent, especially for transactions, which is why the governments are able to tolerate it.  If something bad happens the security agencies will be able to use the transparent feature to trace the issue.
Ofcourse, the nice thing about Bitcoin is that even though it's transparent, and transactions can be tracked, your privacy/anonymity is protected unless you do something really evil. The issue with TC is more about weakening of transaction tracking, rather than the anonymity which isn't a bad thing for innocent users who want to feel safe with their assets and transactions visible to the public.
And no one can seize your coins even though it can be tracked, because you control them. You could only lose control of the coins via theft, losing your keys, or if you do something bad and the security or judge makes you to surrender control.


In regards to certain people accumulating bitcoins, thar doesn't matter much. It will not help them control the price. To control the price of Bitcoin you have to control or have power over the Bitcoin system. But non of them controls Bitcoin as you have written. The power to influence the price resides with those who love the CREATOR and Bitcoin principles like decentralization, transparency, immutability, privacy etc.

[X-ray]

Yeah bitcoin is decentralized on its core, doesn't matter if the whales owns big portion because they have the capital to do so.

But like other mentioned, TC is just a smart contract in ethereum, there's like comparing apple to orange here.

It's better to compare BTC to Monero, however I can't help but think myself that the fact that BTC isn't too privacy focused and that its ledger is pretty transparent also contribute to the smooth legalisation of BTC and its adoption toward strategic reserve across various countries.

[davis196]

OP, your forum thread doesn't make any sense.
Comparing Bitcoin to an Ethereum-based mixer like Tornado Cash doesn't make any sense.
What that does that supposed to have in common with "the ones in control" who are trying to grab every satoshi? If most BTC in circulation would ever get acquired a by a bunch of governments and crypto whales, the BTC price would most likely collapse, because the small investors would be kicked out of the market. What's the point of HODLing lots of devalued BTC? The rich elites need small investors, because the small investors are the ones, who bring liquidity to the market and they are the ones, who help in pumping the price during a FOMO phase.

[ABCbits]

This thread is another case of comparing apple with orange. Bitcoin is cryptocurrency, while Tornado Cash is decentralized privacy tool in certain cryptocurrency network (such as ETH).

1. Likely to get banned, for real.

Looking at how government treatment towards Monero, it's possible.

2. Devs will be forced to break the anonymous part.

Such change is likely to be rejected by the community. Looking at Monero community as example, i don't think them would ever accept change that remove privacy or make privacy optional.

4. A great tool for hiding frauds transactions it is.

Some banks also used for money laundering, in bigger scale.