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Author Topic: Ordinals and BRC20  (Read 116 times)
_act_ (OP)
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September 10, 2025, 10:34:30 AM
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #1

Can what Leonidas, an Ordinal's developer said if bitcoin developers reverse their decision and want to censor Ordinals transactions, he said they will develop their own open-source fork of Bitcoin Core.

I think if such happens, many miners will support them. I think Ordinals and BRC20 may stay. They argued that they generated money for bitcoin miners which are maintaining the security of bitcoin network.

What do you about this? I do not think Ordinals can be eradicated even if some bitcoin developers will try to do it.

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September 10, 2025, 10:54:22 AM
Merited by LoyceV (6), d5000 (4), gmaxwell (2), ABCbits (2), stwenhao (1)
 #2

"Core devs censoring" isn't really a thing. Bitcoin Core doesn't decide what gets mined. Core ships policy for relay and mempools (what your node forwards) and consensus rules (what makes a block valid). Ordinals/BRC-20 inscriptions are just valid Taproot transactions that put data in the witness. As long as they're valid under the consensus rules, any miner can include them and every node must accept the block.

Changing that would require a broad, contentious consensus change. To truly "eradicate" inscriptions you'd need to change consensus (e.g., outlaw some forms of witness data or change the weight formula). That's a soft-fork at least, with high risk of breaking legitimate uses and little chance of widespread agreement. Node-relay policy can be tightened (some PRs try to make data-carrying patterns non-standard), but policy is not a ban--users can still broadcast to their own node or directly to miners.

Miners don't adopt or reject transactions because devs say so; they include what maximizes revenue subject to validity. If inscriptions pay more than alternatives, many miners will keep including them. If the market stops paying for them, they disappear without any "ban."

A fork is just an altcoin pretty much. If an inscriptions-focused group or a censorship-focused group forked Bitcoin Core to change the rules, they've made a new chain. Miners will mine whichever chain is more profitable and users value. That doesn't "force" Bitcoin to change.

-- Can they be eradicated?
Practically: no--not without a major consensus change that the ecosystem would have to agree on. Relay policy can raise friction; fees can price them out; but determined users will still get them mined if they pay.

So the realistic outcome is economic, not political: the fee market decides. If Ordinals/BRC-20 users are willing to pay, miners will accept them; if not, they fade away. Core devs can tweak relay policy for network health, but they can't, by themselves, "censor" valid transactions.
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September 10, 2025, 11:08:54 AM
Last edit: September 10, 2025, 11:23:24 AM by stwenhao
Merited by ABCbits (2), Halab (2), BattleDog (2), _act_ (1), ESG (1)
 #3

Quote
I think Ordinals and BRC20 may stay.
Of course they will. It was unclear during the first months, but now, enough time passed, so that everyone can see: nothing will be changed. Some people may want to censor them in that way or another, but eventually, all of their transactions will be confirmed, as long as enough fees are paid. Which means, that the mainchain will be turned into a spamchain, where everyone will include all non-payment things, and treat it as a P2P cloud storage. This is where the mainchain is going, and that won't be changed, because people didn't stop it during early stages, so nobody will do that now.

Quote
They argued that they generated money for bitcoin miners which are maintaining the security of bitcoin network.
Of course. And they also started bloating the UTXO set, which means, that there is more and more disk space needed, to run a pruned node. In the extreme case, the size of the chain can be comparable to the size of the UTXO set. Fortunately, we are far from that, but now, everyone can see, how to spam the chain. So, that kind of things can be done: blocks can be filled with a lot of outputs, sending zero satoshis to the UTXO set, or a lot of non-consensus data in the witness space, behind OP_RETURN, or anywhere else.

And of course, when there are less payments, than needed to fill a block, it costs nothing for miners to spam the chain, so some mining pools may start doing that in the future. Then, blocks will never be empty again, because unused space can be always filled with non-payments, for no additional cost (and then, non-mining nodes will pay for all of that).

Quote
What do you about this?
I think if someone wants to focus on payments, then processing everything, what is happening on the mainchain, will no longer be profitable. And then, spammers should be left, where they are. Those, who are focused on payments, can start building subnetworks, where rules will be more strict, and where only payments will be allowed. Everyone is free to use the original spammed chain. If it will be too costly, to send anything from the official node, then people will switch to these subnetworks. As long as the current level of spam is not kicking nodes out of the network, nobody will care.

Quote
I do not think Ordinals can be eradicated even if some bitcoin developers will try to do it.
I think they can be blocked from some subnetworks, while being allowed on the main network. Nobody can stop miners from confirming spammy transactions on-chain. But nobody can also force nodes to use the official software, and process spammy transactions in the first place. Which means, that there will be a place for both, at the same time, and users will join the network they want. If spammers will want to turn mainchain BTC into BSV, then they will. If miners will want to activate 1 TB witness per block, through some soft-fork, then they will. Segwit told everyone, how to increase the size of the block, if some users will decide to make it unlimited, then it will be done. And then, it will be up to the users, if they will still want to use the official software, or not.

I guess next limits will be lifted, one by one. Then, developers will be responsible for nothing, and everyone will be able to deploy absolutely everything. And then, there will be a lot of spam, while some people, caring about payments, will form their own subnetworks, when they will focus only on transacting, and ignore the rest of the traffic (because you cannot force old nodes, to validate all new rules, which spammers would want to introduce in the future, even if they will have hashrate majority on their side).

Edit:
Quote
If an inscriptions-focused group or a censorship-focused group forked Bitcoin Core to change the rules, they've made a new chain.
There is no need to make any "fork", if you want to process only a subset of the mainnet traffic. The same chain can be used, and the heaviest chain of the Proof of Work headers can be always followed.

For "inscriptions-focused group", they can increase the size of the block, just like Segwit did, by making yet another soft-fork, where blocks would optionally commit to data, in additional space, processed only by new nodes.

For "censorship-focused group", they can process the subset of the mainchain traffic, and ignore the rest. They don't have to process or store any transactions, that they don't want to. They only need a minimal setup, to make sure, that blocks are valid, and if one node can make a proof, that some data between offset X and Y is valid, then the rest of the nodes can accept the proof, validate it, and move on.

Quote
Practically: no--not without a major consensus change that the ecosystem would have to agree on.
Nobody knows, what is the exact code, which is running behind some node. People can only check the end results. And as long, as other nodes are working on the same block headers, they can store nothing behind them, if they want to. One group of nodes can mine soft-forked blocks with 1 TB per block. Another group of nodes can mine empty blocks, with only coinbase transactions. They can live on the same chain of block headers, as long as they all agree, that a given chain of Proof of Work headers is the strongest one.

Quote
Core devs can tweak relay policy for network health, but they can't, by themselves, "censor" valid transactions.
They can write the code, which will optionally process the subset of mainchain transactions. But as long as the whole spam can be handled by all node operators, nobody cares, and nobody would care.

Proof of Work puzzle in mainnet and testnet4.
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September 10, 2025, 03:01:19 PM
 #4

One thing is certain. Miners need to earn revenue through fees, not just the block reward. Ordinals and runes are needed. Also NFT !
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September 11, 2025, 08:24:49 AM
 #5

Can what Leonidas, an Ordinal's developer said if bitcoin developers reverse their decision and want to censor Ordinals transactions

Source to their statement would be great, since censorship could mean many things.

I think Ordinals and BRC20 may stay.

They will stay. Until this day, AFAIK many developer don't even agree to make OP_FALSE OP_IF ... OP_ENDIF as non-standard script, when the script would never executed. In addition, no monetary/financial transaction would ever need to use such script.

Quote
They argued that they generated money for bitcoin miners which are maintaining the security of bitcoin network.
Of course. And they also started bloating the UTXO set, which means, that there is more and more disk space needed, to run a pruned node. In the extreme case, the size of the chain can be comparable to the size of the UTXO set. Fortunately, we are far from that, but now, everyone can see, how to spam the chain. So, that kind of things can be done: blocks can be filled with a lot of outputs, sending zero satoshis to the UTXO set, or a lot of non-consensus data in the witness space, behind OP_RETURN, or anywhere else.

It's also to worth that the UTXO growth force you to use bigger RAM capacity or use fast SSD (to read/write UTXO change quickly).

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September 11, 2025, 11:47:47 AM
Merited by ABCbits (1)
 #6


Source to their statement would be great, since censorship could mean many things.

This is the original post on twitter
https://x.com/LeonidasNFT/status/1964225563725291732?t=tQBdTCaD_CV-tWzbnpD4JQ&s=19
The censorship here is purposely trying to limit their usecase of Bitcoin.

One thing is certain. Miners need to earn revenue through fees, not just the block reward. Ordinals and runes are needed. Also NFT !
Sadly can't really deny that but the issue is if the trade off is worth it.

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September 12, 2025, 04:30:58 AM
 #7

I think if such happens, many miners will support them. I think Ordinals and BRC20 may stay. They argued that they generated money for bitcoin miners which are maintaining the security of bitcoin network.
It is unlikely. Check out the fees, it is clear that the Ordinals Attack is no longer a thing. They have not been able to congest the mempool enough to raise the fees with their spam attack. So there wouldn't be any kind of incentive for a miner to switch to a copycatcoin (which is what it would be if they forked bitcoin, something like bcash, bgold, bsilver,...). Even when the attack began and the spam was at maximum the incentive to switch to such a fork was not enough.

Not to mention that at the end of the day what is being referred to as BRC20 is NOT part of Bitcoin protocol so if they create a shitfork where the only purpose is to allow these "arbitrary data" to be injected into the chain, they would be competing with actual token creation platforms such as Ethereum. In other words such a fork would be dead before it begins because the only reason why gullible newbies even considered this garbage when it came out was because it was using the bitcoin chain and bitcoin name to advertise it self even though this was never a token!

to censor Ordinals transactions
The correct term is "prevent abusing an exploit" not "censor" and I don't think anybody is trying to do it...

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September 12, 2025, 08:03:37 AM
 #8


Source to their statement would be great, since censorship could mean many things.

This is the original post on twitter
https://x.com/LeonidasNFT/status/1964225563725291732?t=tQBdTCaD_CV-tWzbnpD4JQ&s=19
The censorship here is purposely trying to limit their usecase of Bitcoin.

Thank you, i'll quote it so everyone can see his statement.

An open letter to Bitcoin Core,

Any serious attempt by Bitcoin Core to tighten policy rules or censor Ordinals and Runes transactions will be met with decisive action. If necessary, the $DOG Army will fund the development and maintenance of an open source fork of Bitcoin Core that strips out nearly all policy rules, and that thousands of people will run to make it abundantly clear that Bitcoin is and must always remain censorship resistant.

The Ordinals and Runes ecosystem is tired of being gaslit for actually using BTC as money every day while contributing over half a billion dollars in transaction fees to strengthen Bitcoin’s security.

I am not here to virtue signal like @adam3us
 or represent a bunch of broke, conspiracy theory lovers like @LukeDashjr
.

There are over twenty Bitcoin startups that operate economically relevant nodes and have collectively broadcast nearly half of all Bitcoin transactions over the past two years that would welcome the expanded design space for their applications and protocols that opens up if they were only required to adhere to consensus rules rather than arbitrary policy restrictions.

I have also had the privilege of speaking directly with miners and mining pools representing more than 50% of Bitcoin’s total hash rate. I can state with certainty that they will accept any consensus valid Bitcoin transactions with competitive fees attached if the process is made simple and secure.

There is no meaningful difference between normalizing the censorship of JPEG or memecoin transactions and normalizing the censorship of certain monetary transactions by nation-states. Both would set very dangerous precedents.

The $DOG Army and the Ordinals and Runes ecosystem will not sit idly by while transaction censorship is normalized on Bitcoin. We will defend the principles that have always set Bitcoin apart, such as open access, censorship resistance, and neutrality at the base layer.

I have thoughts about his statement.
1. It seems making OP_FALSE OP_IF ... OP_ENDIF as non-standard also considered as censorship to them.
2. Runes use OP_RETURN and IIRC Bitcoin Core 30.0 will loosen OP_RETURN usage, so it's weird this tweet talk as if there's plan to "censor" runes.
3. Each Bitcoin nodes broadcast all transaction on their mempool, so i don't see anything special with those "twenty Bitcoin startups that operate economically relevant nodes".
4. It's weird he mention monetary transaction regarding censorship, but later doesn't mention plan to defend monetary transaction.

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Today at 03:10:19 PM
 #9

Can what Leonidas, an Ordinal's developer said if bitcoin developers reverse their decision and want to censor Ordinals transactions, he said they will develop their own open-source fork of Bitcoin Core.

I think if such happens, many miners will support them. I think Ordinals and BRC20 may stay. They argued that they generated money for bitcoin miners which are maintaining the security of bitcoin network.

What do you about this? I do not think Ordinals can be eradicated even if some bitcoin developers will try to do it.


LAUGHABLE.

Does everyone actually believe that a group of dick pics and fart sounds users would win in a fork war against the Core Developers? Will the economic majority actually believe that Leonidas' group be the better stewards of the Bitcoin network? Will the miners actually risk everything and support to fork the network away from the Core Developers? Will the exchanges list Ordinals-BTC as the "real BTC"?

LAUGHABLE.

Leonidas was definitely shilling his "DOG" shitcoin in his post.

LAUGHABLE.

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