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Author Topic: Thoughts about Quantum Blockchain Technologies, QBT.  (Read 804 times)
NotFuzzyWarm
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August 16, 2024, 12:06:29 AM
Last edit: August 16, 2024, 03:02:58 AM by NotFuzzyWarm
 #21

Quote
Where Mr Gardin shows what appears to be a BitAxe Hex,
So they're using one of the most under-powered miners as a test bed?
As for:
Quote
The Company has found that CGMiner, which is considered the leading operating system for Bitcoin mining, added elements of unpredictability to a number of processes, due mainly to the code being developed over the last 13 years by a large number of contributors, each adding a new elements to the mining software.
That's bullshit.
There was only 2 primary developers: -ck & Kano. They are the ones that did virtually all of the actual mining code. Yes, several other folks contributed things like network and USB coms and a few did drivers for some oddball miner chips but ALL code including the sub systems went by -ck/Kano for testing & approval before being added. Since -ck has long ago closed his support/development that leaves Kano as the sole remaining original primary dev for cgminer and the last outsider code Kano approved was drivers from -VH to support sidehack's original Compac USB stick miners. AFAIK the last major changes to cgminer was the code for using Stratum vs the original GetBlockTemplate method followed by version rolling used by ASICboost. Most of the 'new elements' QBT refer to are ASIC mining chip drivers - not changes to the mining code itself. Being drivers that code is only used for specific (and obsolete) chips and has nothing to do with the actual mining code.

That ^ however only applies to all code in the official -ck & Kano gits.

That is a key point because numerous folks have spun off their own unofficial variants of cgminer (mainly for altcoins) and quite frankly most of the forks are crap partly because folks behind the forks put in their own tweaks to suit their specific needs w/o caring about what other functions their new code breaks.

Wonder what QBT is going to come up with in the next few months as an excuse when they make no progress using ESP-miner + their vaporware code?

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BobsSocks (OP)
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August 16, 2024, 08:32:12 AM
 #22

Published via the regulatory news service,

https://www.londonstockexchange.com/stock/QBT/quantum-blockchain-technologies-plc/analysis

and now uploaded to their website.

https://quantumblockchaintechnologies.co.uk/investor-relations/regulatory-news
https://quantumblockchaintechnologies.co.uk/images/QBT_-_RD_Update_15_August_24.pdf

Quote
A decision has been taken, therefore, to migrate away from CGMiner to AxeOS (ESP-miner), a more recently developed and, in the Company’s opinion, a better designed public domain operating system software for Bitcoin mining devices. The Company has found that CGMiner, which is considered the leading operating system for Bitcoin mining, added elements of unpredictability to a number of processes, due mainly to the code being developed over the last 13 years by a large number of contributors, each adding a new elements to the mining software. Therefore, while CGMiner was initially used by QBT to achieve the porting of its Methods, its high-level of inefficiency has now been recognised and the change to ESP-miner has been implemented.

Considering that QBT approached CK directly for assistance,

https://x.com/ckpooldev/status/1773906971806298306

and depending on how you feel you might consider their words to be libelous in that rather than just accepting that they are rubbish they are calling the reputation of CGMiner and that of CK and Kano into doubt. Bear in mind that you, I and many others are aware of the link between QBT and CK along with all the moaning they have done about CGMiner.

Whilst CK suggested he did not wish to name them...

Quote
After thinking long and hard about whether I should name them publicly, I decided not to based on how CSW was able to cause endless pain on his bogus claims on bitcoin despite being nothing more than a psychiatric case with almost limitless money at his disposal.

He might consider contacting

aimregulation@lseg.com

who regulate the market QBT is listed on and asking them to get the company to publish a clarification or withdrawal along with an apology. Aim regulation will consider the request and treat it in confidence.

Quote
Wonder what QBT is going to come up with in the next few months as an excuse when they make no progress using ESP-miner + their vaporware code?

Perhaps OSMU should think carefully about the association with QBT before QBT fails with their kit and starts trying to destroy their reputation as well.

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August 16, 2024, 03:45:51 PM
 #23

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So they're using one of the most under-powered miners as a test bed?

Sorry about missing out the most excellent ROFL but as another thought.

Whilst QBT spend all of their time achieving nothing and think it's valid to blame world plus dog for their fail the latest RNS also appears to reveal why they are in permanent fail mode and the reason why no amount of trying other people's stuff only to slag them off when it doesn't work is kind of hidden in plain sight.

Quote
These limitations are mainly due to the speed and power consumption inefficiencies created by the designers, which impact the ability to use any arbitrary input to SHA-256.

Of course I may be wrong but QBT's AI superwhizz rubbish appears to rely on being able to stuff the arbitrary numbers they want into available ASICs and available ASICs won't let them do that.

The mention of speed and power consumption inefficiencies is just an attempt by the grifters to try and hide the real problem. They can't get their numbers into the ASICs so they are permanently f*kd.
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August 17, 2024, 12:16:08 AM
Last edit: August 17, 2024, 09:46:17 PM by NotFuzzyWarm
 #24

Close. It's not that the ASIC's won't accept the work - it's that their AI-generated 'work' cannot (ever) reliably produce the correct output when ran through the SHA256 logic embedded in the chips. As long as the input matches the required format they are more than happy to produce a result -- it just won't be one that results in a found block (=> current diff).

Problem is, part of finding a block requires that the data from the block header MUST coincide with the result produced by the mining chip(s) eg when presented with the same work inputs. Those inputs are the work that is sent to the miner by a pool or directly from a BTC node. The structure of a block header is an 80 byte binary data set and is: Version 4 bytes, Previous Block Hash 32 bytes, Merkle Root 32 bytes, Block Time 4 bytes, Bits 4 bytes, Hash Nonce 4 bytes. Given those inputs with the exact same values any sha256 chip will process it the same so results are verifiable.

ref mining details from Kano's pool help page https://kano.is/index.php?k=minedet for details on what that work consists of.

QBT seems to be trying to look at that data and through their majik AI recipe come up with a more limited selection of inputs to create the actual work sent to the ASIC's. Of course if their guesses are wrong - no block found... My guess is that the core problem they have is that they are computing random guesses like a shotgun - all over the board - vs standard practice of just stepping through all of the possible iterations of work that a miner does. Their 'complaint' against cgminer is that it insists on producing data to be sent to the chips that is strictly based on the work (they are called 'shares') sent to it by a pool (node)...

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BobsSocks (OP)
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August 17, 2024, 11:50:43 AM
Merited by NotFuzzyWarm (1)
 #25

Thanks for the added insight. You can take a guess that my lips were moving when I read through the link provided and your explanation and thoughts.

Just to be annoying and try to break this out for myself the first problem is that Bitmain keep rolling out new chips and no doubt keep changing the interface along with the architecture to keep everyone else on the back foot. I would not be surprised if that includes some sort of jiggery pokery within the controller firmware that might encrypt those communications and then they lock down their controller firmware to make things even harder. Everyone gets to suffer when they do this, as has QBT, because they have to reverse engineer that interface. Something Kano did with SideHack.

Base on the words from Kano, waves, and information elsewhere my simple scenario would be that the ASIC, containing a number of bitcoin specific hashing cores, is first loaded with the fixed numbers and is then given a Merkle Root and rolls the nonces through the full 32 bit range. There is a mention elsewhere that the BM1366 can roll something else other than the nonce but I'll stick with that. Depending on the number of cores then the roll will be offset to spread the workload across the cores in the ASIC. Things might be more complex in as much as you might go further and split the roll across multiple ASICs.

It kind of puts me in mind of the previous work on scheduling done by CK and how that might apply in this scenario as well as in the case of pool mining software. I've always thought that there must be some mechanism whereby the work has to be scheduled across the architecture, including pool, so that resources are not wasted by duplicating work. If that is kind of right then the network must be designed to optimise such scheduling and QBT don't get to moan about it. I might like to see some enhancements to a particular piece of FOSS. Just because I might think they could be a good idea I don't get to moan about others doing it wrong especially when I would not have a clue how to do it myself.

Let's take a leap of faith and accept that QBT's AI waffle is capable of spotting patterns in SHA256. Given the current crop of ASICs are designed to roll the nonce for themselves all QBT can do is roll and schedule the Merkel Route restricting the scheduling across cores or rigs or the network to the ranges their AI waffle thinks will have a higher likelihood of producing the right, an acceptable answer. This, according to my simplified version of things, is what the network is designed to do so they should just shut up and get on with it like everyone else does. There are no issues about the speed or efficiencies of such things that they get to moan about even if they think they can do it better.

There are no conceptual barriers to them proving their stuff works other than the possibility it does not work and they don't want proof it doesn't or it is a big fat nonexistant nothing being used to extract investment from mugs. All they can really bleat about, as they have done recently, is that they do not have the resources required to run their rubbish at a scale that will give a statistically significant level of proof. All the other moaning is just pants.
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August 19, 2024, 06:33:23 PM
 #26

Thanks for the merit tick. I'm feeling fuzzy and warm.

This cropped up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LepnkruI4o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LepnkruI4o&t=29s

Quote
And turns out that it's working perfectly so now the fan is turning it's now connected to a computer with a USB cable adapter and on the terminal with CG Miner

Is it possible that that means QBT wasted the last whatever time trying to get CGMiner to work with their rubbish but that was the wrong choice from the outset so having failed to get it to work and rather than sticking their hands up for their stupids they slagged off CK and the CGMiner community but now they still have to use CGMiner?

If so disgusting behaviour but priceless.
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July 20, 2025, 03:34:23 PM
Last edit: July 20, 2025, 04:20:22 PM by BobsSocks
Merited by NotFuzzyWarm (2)
 #27

Back for another burble with apologies for the Necro. Probably best to keep my rambling in one place.

The company, their CEO and new consultant, presented at NEMS25, Bitcoin Park, at the end of January this year. A copy of the audio is available here,

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nems25-reality-or-science-fiction-a-future-of/id1646515985?i=1000699494440

Jose Rios appears to spend most of his time reminiscing about his time with Intel. Francesco Gardin does not manage to give much additional insight as to where the company is at. He does however drop some possibly interesting information subject to interpretation which might be a bit tricky.

Initially he suggests that their firstl AI models were trained assuming full access to the block headers, those parts that are subject to modification.

The work had to be thrown away because that was/is not the way ASICs are implemented. Perhaps related he says that Bitmain ASIcs do not roll the full nonce range. He suggests that they miss 30% of them. There is information about that here,

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/adddja/the_weird_nonce_pattern/

Elsewhere Skot, of Bitaxe fame, has suggested that the anomaly arises because with a fixed number of ASICs within a rig and division of the work, nonce, across those ASICs with a requirement to synchronize that work rounding errors mean that some is missed. I'm not sure that would end up with 30% being missed but as a design decision it seems to make sense.

I'm not certain about the history or details but it seems that as initially proposed a 32 bit nonce in conjunction with the initial difficulty meant that solutions below the difficulty could be found. Of course as the difficulty has increased over time that is no longer the case and something else had to be added to the roll.  Again being a knuckle dragger and  not knowing the full details this appears to have been incorporated in the 'coin base'.

Whilst I m suspicious about the 30% figure mentioned by Francesco Gardin that particular number causes my mind to wander off in another direction.

The company has claimed that their AI models have been trained using historic blockchain data. Depending on the epoch then that data is likely to have been poisoned by Bitmain rigs, the market leader, throwing away 30% of the nonces. AI is very good at spotting patterns and Francesco Gardin has often claimed that his AI has spotted patterns in SHA256.

In particular Method C is claimed to be 30% better by throwing away inputs it thinks will not achieve a winning hash. 30% is a bit glaring because if you train your AI on data missing 30% of the inputs because the Bitmain ASICs threw it away your AI might end up thinking it has found its pattern.

A pattern that does not exist in SHA256 but was a result of design choices. You are not identifying a pattern in SHA256 you have come up with a Bitmain ASIC detector.

It is also worthless because you are throwing away the numbers the ASIC would have thrown away anyway.

A similar argument might apply to the claims for Method B. In this case Method B rather than throwing away inputs that will not win it supposedly selects inputs more likely to win. The claim is that it is 160% better. With the caveat that my maths might be broken 1/(1 - 0.3) = 143% OK we are not hitting things exactly but I will call that near enough. Method B is also a Bitmain ASIC detector..

Regarding Method A then things are harder to pin down.

It is only 10% better. However words from the company via PRN suggest that the company were only able to properly develop the AI for its model when they gained proper access to a Bitmain ASIC by using ESPMiner and this gave them the capability to perform more precise timing on how fast a particular input would hash. The implication would be that it has not been trained on historic data but it has been trained against the ASIC.

Assuming the ASIC, as a result of design decisions, is still throwing away nonces will hash the nonces it is throwing away faster because it is not hashing them. That one might qualify as a tautology but I'll rescue 10% not being 30% by suggesting the pool of data is less extensive than the historical data used to train the other models. Hence the discrepancy.

Just to mention I made reference to PRNs from the company when discussing Model A. The information is there but I will be damned, for the moment, if I am going to trawl through the inconsistent and indecipherable dribble that the company manages to publish via supposedly regulatory channels. I'll leave that one until they get upset with me but you can immerse yourselves in it here.

https://quantumblockchaintechnologies.co.uk/investor-relations/regulatory-news

Franceso Gardin is at pains to be proud of the supposed fact that the three teams who developed these AI models did so independently. Now I have to trogg through more drivel...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYNcH8Fv9wZ31ZOeQeAmhwQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ehU3hDMFEM

This premise falls flat on its face when you realize that these three independent teams trained their models on the same data. Again that one is in the PRNs. It's just piss poor Science. Francesco will/has also claimed that he has 2 petabytes of self generated data that was also used for training. Again three teams independently training their models on the same data. As an aside ask yourselves how quickly the Bitcoin network would fill up 2 petabytes of storage with wrong answers?

My guess is about 20uS give or take a (couple of) order(s) of magnitude.

We also get this one,

https://www.youtube.com/@Proactive247/search?query=quantum%20blockchain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4UdQh9JCRc

Method A is now only 3% better, Previously 10%, and Method B is now only north of 10%. Previously 160%. Supposedly because they made things more generic. I refer to these interviews as being Proactive Handjobs and they come with a warning from the producers that the company taking part might be talking their own book.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXoDWjrUSZA

The above is prior to the presentation at NEMS25. Francesco Gardin describes it as being,..

"Now, where do we go from here? It's very simple. I mean we will be in the United States next week, at a very selective invitation only meeting with the top experts of Bitcoin mining and we will give an official presentation on our method. And that would be the beginning of our commercial engagement with the obvious players that have developed ASICS and they can add our IP to their existing ASIC chip so that the chip can boost their performance."

No offence to the crew at Bitcoin Park but Mr Gardin is bigging you up to take money off of others with less knowledge of your space in or outside of a hot tub.

On that point and in parting on April 8th the company claimed that they were in talks about Method C with an ASIC manufacturer,

https://quantumblockchaintechnologies.co.uk/images/QBT_-_NDA_8_April_25_final.pdf

"The Company will be giving an in-depth presentation of the Method C AI Oracle technology to the manufacturer during April, followed by a period of testing by the manufacturer, to confirm the AI Oracle’s performance on their ASIC chip’s architecture."

Four months later that one has been memory holed the substitute Squirrels being,

https://quantumblockchaintechnologies.co.uk/images/QBT_-_Business_Update_19_June_2025.pdf

Two third party control board manufacturers and two new ASIC chip manufacturers. Apparently the products are available for immediate release and sales and porting of Method A and B to these third party boards involve no technical barriers, it's taken a month so far.. As is the case with the announcement of 8th of April I have no doubt that NDA's are in place.

Excuse me whilst I go off the wall but if any company is involved with such a process and feels that QBT technology does not live up to its promises I would suggest that they ignore the NDAs in place and advise the wider community of their findings. You might feel that you can walk away having dodged the bullet but the company will continue to raise money on the AIM market from private investors who will continue to drink the Kool Aid and dream of being millionaires.

Also I need to get a life which might involve laying out a board for my direct off-line regenerative 3kW Class D Audio Amplifier. No you cannot put one in your car to listen to fart bass at ear destroying levels. I can also do snake oil but I have standards.
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July 20, 2025, 05:24:18 PM
 #28

Was surprised to see this topic pop up again. Ja, it seems that QBT is still trying to convince the world that They Are Onto Something and the world stubbornly keeps proving to them that they are just either:
 a. Idiots
 b. Scammers
 c. Dreamers with no idea how mining really works
 d. Just plain wrong
 e. All the above

More merit given given for ya keeping tabs on them.

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November 13, 2025, 08:10:08 PM
 #29

Here is another update...

https://quantumblockchaintechnologies.co.uk/images/RNS_-_Method_C_Software_Version_Nov_25_Final_Clean_1.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqdl-Y8TkgE

At the beginning of the year Francesco Gardin pivoted to using rewards from pool mining as the metric for success of his Methods. In the case of Method C apparently hashing faster as a result of throwing away work requested by the pool I suggested that the action might be fraudulent. The pool owner does not know that the Method does anything and yet QBT, or their customers, will be claiming for work that has not been done.

In the video linked to above Francesco Gardin burbles on about Pool Difficulty having a value of 10 so naturally I turn to...

https://kano.is/index.php?k=workdiff

To find out if the guy has discovered a clue. Unsurprisingly it turns out he has not the number is not 10. However he does appear to have made up a new term for you guys to accept into your vocabulary. "Quality of Hash".

As he describes it Method C improves the Quality of Hash in as much as, as per the RNS linked to above, allows a miner to move to a higher share level on a pool. Again and as per KanoPool this smells like the typical waffle the guy spews in search of Mug InvestorCash™ because it is the pool that uses its set difficulty to determine a miners hashrate and adjust to normalize it's reporting rate.

However if we are to assume that Gardins Magic Bean Machine does what it says on the tin then, although the notes on KanoPool state the system cannot be gamed, once again the implication would be that QBT have come up with a method that results in, Quality, Hashes that will satisfy pool difficulty without solving blocks but resulting in being able to claim higher share rewards.

Again this is an activity that I would suggest is likely to be fraudulent. Do you guys need such people messing about in secret in the industry?
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