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Author Topic: US Congress will not regulate Bitcoin, Bitcoin will regulate Congress  (Read 2612 times)
JohnnyBTCSeed (OP)
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March 19, 2014, 05:03:20 PM
 #21

I believe that this individual might be on the right track so I decided to paste in his post


"No, I agree that the blockchain is the right technology. It is the most secure way of voting, the amount of computing power using it as a currency makes it about the most secure way to vote in the world.

But the way votes in current government structures are used is ancient (literally). You vote for some people to go represent you and they go on to use that as justification to use a military and police to "morally" steal money from people to "do what you ask of them".

What Bitcoin and the blockchain can do is cut the government middleman. You want a problem solved?
1. You and others who agree that it is a problem pledge some bitcoins toward the problem.
2. People propose solutions to the problem, along with the cost.
3. You and others vote with your pledged bitcoins via the blockchain. If the cost is covered, the proposer gets the bitcoins. Otherwise the money stays with you and the others.
4. The problem is solved, people are not forced to pay for your problem, you get what you want to pay for."


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=516160.msg5778805#msg5778805
JohnnyBTCSeed (OP)
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April 07, 2014, 03:26:22 PM
 #22

http://www.fame.org/HTM/Vieira_Edwin_What_is_a_Dollar_EV-002.HTM

Conclusion

In the light of this history, the present monetary provisions of the United States Code demonstrate that official Washington, D.C., has no conception of what a "dollar" really is. The reason for this self-imposed ignorance is obvious. By reducing the "dollar" to a political abstraction, the national government has empowered itself to engage in limitless debasement (depreciation in purchasing power) of the currency. A "dollar" that contains - and must perforce of the Constitution contain - 371.25 grains of fine silver cannot be reduced in value below the market exchange value of silver for other commodities. A pseudo-"dollar" that contains no fixed amount of any particular substance per "dollar" can be reduced in value infinitely. As debasement of currency amounts to a hidden tax, Congress' silent refusal to recognize the constitutional "dollar" amounts to the usurpation of an unlimited power to tax through manipulation of the monetary system. Thus, modern "money" has become a means for the total confiscation of private property by the government.

More ominously, this scheme of surreptitious confiscation remains hidden from the vast majority of Americans, who seem blissfully unconcerned about the issue most important to the soundness of the country's monetary system: namely, the character of the monetary unit. One need not be overly pessimistic to predict that misuse by politicians of the fictional, constantly depreciating pseudo-"dollar" to expropriate unsuspecting citizens will continue until an economic crisis finally shocks an increasingly impoverished American people out of its slumber, and forces the people to ask the simple question: "What is a 'dollar'?" At that time, the answer will be no different from what it is today, and has been since 1704 - but the opportunity to use that knowledge to prevent a catastrophe may be long gone.

Therefore, those few who do know what a "dollar" is, and why that definition is important, need to inform as many of their fellow-citizens as possible. If time has not already run out for re-education of the American people in this area, it is racing towards the historic exit. Under these circumstances, silence by the friends of sound money and honest government is not "golden,” but potentially fatal.

JohnnyBTCSeed (OP)
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April 07, 2014, 03:28:30 PM
 #23

Even though we may not agree with the laws as citizens I feel we should
do our best to comply with them. Since the IRS leaves it to me to
determine the tax liability by determining their value in comparison to
the US Dollar then I feel I should do that. The IRS fails to realize
the can of worms they are opening up, however,. The widespread use of
Bitcoin by many that are less than friendly with the ideas of the IRS
and it's employer (the Federal Reserve) can lead to different
interpretation of what they say than what they expected.

The problem that the IRS fails to see is that this could easily blow up
to a huge problem with what exactly is the legal definition of the
dollar that they are using as a reference point to measure compliance. I
believe Edwin Veirra in his 19 page paper "What Is A Dollar" http://www.fame.org/HTM/Vieira... does a thorough legal and historic work on that topic and concludes that a
dollar is one of these - a silver dollar minted by the Constitutionally authorized entity known as the mint. The Federal Reserve Note is, on the other hand, an empty promise to deliver a dollar at some future date but is not, in itself, a dollar. It is a note.

Dr Vierra has four PHDs from Harvard, is an attorney and has successfully argued cases before the US Supreme Court. After reading his work I would love to see someone challenge the IRS to defend their use of the word "dollar" on legal documents when in reality they mean "Federal Reserve Note".

By their declaring we need to convert to the Bitcoin's value in dollars (and not Federal Reserve Notes) I think they have opened up a can of worms where they will have to defend their choice of words. For those not informed about the devaluation of the Federal Reserve Notes it takes approximately 25 of them to purchase one real, legal Dollar. I would interpret the IRS ruling to mean I take the sale price of the Bitcoin in FRNs and divide it by 25 to get its value in dollars. Then declare that as the income amount to determine my taxes upon.

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April 07, 2014, 03:30:02 PM
Last edit: April 08, 2014, 08:04:38 PM by JohnnyBTCSeed
 #24

The US Constitution Doesn't Require Most Americans To Pay An Income Tax
http://tinyurl.com/l9xdsmv
This Blog Post and Accompanying Video Playlist Is Designed To Help Explain Why Most Americans Are Duped Into Believing That We Should All Have To Pay An Income Tax When Their Are An Abundance of Supreme Court Decisions That Say The Exact Opposite:

* Stanton v. Baltic Mining Co., 240 US 103 (1916)

* Eisner v. McCumber Case, That Income Is GAINS, or PROFITS as Results From "CORPORATE" Activity, NOT Wages Exchanged For Labor.

* Brushaber v. Union Pacific R.R., 240 U.S. 1, 11 (1916)

IRS LOSES CHALLENGE TO PROVE TAX LIABILITY

Lawyer is acquitted after arguing income levy lacks legal foundation

The Internal Revenue Service has lost a lawyer’s challenge in front of a jury to prove a constitutional foundation for the nation’s income tax, and the victorious attorney now is setting his sights higher.

“I think now people are beginning to realize that this has got to be the largest fraud, backed up by intimidation and extortion and by the sheer force of taking peoples property and hard-earned money without any lawful authorization whatsoever,” said lawyer Tom Cryer just days after a jury in Louisiana acquitted him of two criminal tax counts.

And before you consign him to the legions of “tin foil hat brigades” who argue against paying taxes, and then want payment to explain how to do that, he addresses the issue up front.

“These snake oil peddlers have conned millions of dollars out of many well-intended patriots and left a trail of broken lives in their wake. … These charlatans should be avoided, not only because they will lead you to bankruptcy and prison, but because by association they discredit those who are telling the truth,” he said.

The truth, he said, is where he comes in, with the launch of a new Truth Attack website that is intended to build on his victory, and create a coalition of resources to defeat – ultimately – the income tax in the United States.

Although the legal citations in the case tend to run the length of paragraphs, Cryer said the underlying issue is not that complicated. Essentially, he argued that income is not necessarily any money that comes to a person, but rather categories such as profit and interest.

He said the free exchange of labor for compensation has been upheld as a right by the Supreme Court, but that doesn’t necessarily make the compensation income.

If ever such an argument were to be presented widely, Cryer said, the income to the federal government would plummet. But not to worry, he said, the expenses could be reduced equally by eliminating programs, departments and agencies that also have no foundation in the Constitution.

“The Founding Fathers intentionally restricted the taxing powers of the new federal government as a measure of restraint on its size. By exceeding that limited taxing authority the federal government has been able to obtain resources beyond its intended reach, and that money has enabled the federal government to exceed its authority,” he said.

For example, he said, the Constitution does not empower the federal government to regulate education, or employment, and agriculture, yet it does so.

The jury in U.S. District Court in Louisiana voted 12-0 to find Cryer, of Shreveport, not guilty of failure to file income taxes for two years. He had been indicted in 2006 on charges of failing to pay $73,000 to the IRS in 2000 and 2001. The next step in his personal case will be up to the IRS and prosecutors, if they choose to continue the issue, he said.

But for the rest of the nation, he’s working with Save-a-Patriot, the Free Enterprise Society, Live Free Now and his own Lie Free Zone to spread the message of the truth.

“There are three points that are important,” he said. “There’s no law making the average working man liable [for income taxes], there’s no law or regulation that allows the IRS to contend that earnings are 100 percent profit received in exchange for nothing, and the right to earn a living through any lawful occupation is a constitutionally protected fundamental right, and it is exempt from taxation.”

Spokesman Robert Marvin in Washington’s IRS office said the Internal Revenue Code provides for taxation on salaries or wages, but when pressed for a specific citation, or constitutional provision, he said, “I can’t comment.”

Cryer’s encounter with tax law began more than a decade ago when a friend told him the income tax was sham. Cryer started researching, hoping to keep his friend out of trouble. But his conclusions, after years of research, were exactly what his friend told him.

He researched not only tax laws, but also the documents pertaining to the drafting of the U.S. Constitution as well as the first income tax.

He said throughout his battle, he’s offered at every turn to pay taxes if the IRS could show him the authorization, and that never has happened.

“The Criminal Investigation Division and Department of Justice both responded only with ‘your position is frivolous.’ I had never stated a position, so how could they know whether it was frivolous?” he said. “Imagine my sending you a bill for $1,000 and when you call me and ask what the bill was for I simply said, ‘that position is frivolous, just write the check and send it in.’”

His acquittal, he said, was a precedent because it means “people can see and recognize the truth.”

He said multiple Supreme Court opinions have affirmed an individual’s ownership of his or her own labor, and “exercising your fundamental rights” is not taxable. “It is definitely a trade. What most people receive in the form of wages, salaries or in my case fees that they personally earned for their labor is not received in exchange for nothing.”

He said there might be a profit that should be taxable, but there might not.

“The IRS lets Wal-Mart sell a trillion dollars worth of goods, but they can back out their cost of goods [before being taxed,]” he said. “The IRS considers, in the case of a Wal-Mart wage earner, 100 percent of what he takes in is profit.”

“But he’s using his life, energy and work lifespan, and depleting it as he goes,” Cryer said. “[Working] is a God-given fundamental right that is protected under the Constitution and can’t be taxed any more than exercising freedom of speech.”

While he waits to see what, if anything, the IRS and Justice Department will do next in his case, he’s working to coordinate the groups that are battling taxation as unconstitutional.

“I have started a campaign to unify [the work] and we’ve got a number of organizations that are sponsoring and supporting this campaign,” he said. The goal is to get everyone “who is aware of the truth” organized so they can spread the word.

He warned without a restoration of constitutional basics, the nation is lost.

“Read your Constitution and you will see that the federal role does not include ANY authority to regulate or tax any citizen directly and that WE expressly reserved the right to rule and govern ourselves as States, not as mere political subdivisions,” his website says.

“The Constitution does not allow the government to run your lives, but the money it is stealing from millions of Americans is the fuel for its over-reaching and kibitzing. Take the money back and we and our states and communities can again be free,” he said.

The fight is over “our FREEDOM from rule by a DISTANT RULER, just as we fought to free ourselves of a distant England over 200 years ago,” he said.
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April 07, 2014, 03:30:35 PM
 #25

yes Im sick of the governments abusing us and using our money for war, when we have our problems and they tend to focous in ganing instead of helping.

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JohnnyBTCSeed (OP)
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April 07, 2014, 03:31:47 PM
 #26

To give credit where credit is due. The above 2 posts are cut and pasted from comments of this article

http://www.coindesk.com/us-tax-man-speaks-first-last-time/
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April 07, 2014, 04:49:37 PM
 #27

To give credit where credit is due. The above 2 posts are cut and pasted from comments of this article

http://www.coindesk.com/us-tax-man-speaks-first-last-time/

I'm interested in following where your sources lead. Unfortunately, your link seems to have little to do with your quoted material on the nature of the dollar, nor on Tom Cryer's case. I assume you must have linked to a page other than desired. Would you be so kind as to update your link? A case number for Tom Cryer's successful pleading would be helpful as well, should you have it.

Nevermind. I see. In the comments. I'll take another look.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
JohnnyBTCSeed (OP)
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April 08, 2014, 07:53:48 PM
 #28

To give credit where credit is due. The above 2 posts are cut and pasted from comments of this article

http://www.coindesk.com/us-tax-man-speaks-first-last-time/

I'm interested in following where your sources lead. Unfortunately, your link seems to have little to do with your quoted material on the nature of the dollar, nor on Tom Cryer's case. I assume you must have linked to a page other than desired. Would you be so kind as to update your link? A case number for Tom Cryer's successful pleading would be helpful as well, should you have it.

Nevermind. I see. In the comments. I'll take another look.
Apologies if that was confusing.

It appears that Tom Cryer fought the IRS to his grave.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Cryer

On February 15, 2012, the Court granted another delay,.[19] Trial had been re-scheduled for October 22, 2012, in New Orleans.[20]

Tom Cryer died on June 4, 2012.
JohnnyBTCSeed (OP)
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April 23, 2014, 04:30:25 PM
 #29

Let me circle the wagons back to the original argument.

This is slightly old but

Michigan is the 34th state to call for an assembly. Whether on not this happens due to other states backing out is another question however..
If the states want something changed then it IS in the US constitution to call a convention.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/constitutional-convention-Boehner-balanced-budget/2014/04/11/id/565155/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/02/rare-option-forcing-congress-to-meet-change-constitution-gains-momentum/
http://joeforamerica.com/2014/04/michigan-just-trigger-constitutional-convention-bid-gains-steam/

This convention is supposedly about the budget. Bitcoin could really shine at a convention such as this. Wouldn't you like to have some transparency in government spending. The blockchain can do this. Gov fraud is perpetrated by keeping things in the dark.

It seems that blockchain technology really will be able to help regulate congress even if it only helps provide transparency.
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April 23, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
 #30

IT IS ALREADY HAPPENING PEOPLE!


BitCongress is a decentralized, peer to peer, open source voting system built onto the Blockchain in several ways including a mined crypto currency called Votecoin. It is a validated voting system where anyone can become the vote counter or auditor.


http://www.ihavebitcoins.com/featured/danish-political-party-makes-history-opts-blockchain-technology-voting/

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April 23, 2014, 04:52:43 PM
 #31

That is wild.  Small town in Denmark today, maybe a whole country tomorrow.
Interesting they are using ethereum.

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April 23, 2014, 05:46:19 PM
 #32

speaking of regulation...Coinbase looks like they are ramping up to start really documenting all transactions and most likely issuing 1099s at the end of the year.   Since you have to go through all the verification processes with a bank account and all, as well as the advanced transaction reports they are now making...I bet by the end of the year we will start receiving 1099s from them Sad
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https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU


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April 24, 2014, 04:51:08 AM
 #33

Regulate.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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