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bryant.coleman
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May 19, 2014, 06:04:03 AM
 #41

The valuation is way off. It is nowhere near 160 million. At the very most multiplying their profits by ten would take it to $10 million. Raising capital doesn't count as sales or gross profit, so it isn't really something to be factored into the valuation.

Let's compare Bitpay with Ebay. For Ebay, the operating profits are near $2.85 billion. Its market cap is 65.84 billion. The P/E ratio is more than 23. Now look at Bitpay. The business is growing at a rapid pace, and profits are expected to touch $10 million per year by the end of 2014. So, I think that a valuation of $160 million is fair.
MrBitHero
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May 19, 2014, 08:41:13 PM
 #42

The valuation is way off. It is nowhere near 160 million. At the very most multiplying their profits by ten would take it to $10 million. Raising capital doesn't count as sales or gross profit, so it isn't really something to be factored into the valuation.

Let's compare Bitpay with Ebay. For Ebay, the operating profits are near $2.85 billion. Its market cap is 65.84 billion. The P/E ratio is more than 23. Now look at Bitpay. The business is growing at a rapid pace, and profits are expected to touch $10 million per year by the end of 2014. So, I think that a valuation of $160 million is fair.

Where did you get their profits? They've reported more than 1m in daily revenue processing, say it's 1.35m per day that's 500m per year.

Their most expensive processing option is 1%. Their cheapest is 0.01% (pay 1$ or $10 a day to process $10k or $100k respectively).

Let's be generous and say they average 0.80%. That means they take $4m in revenue a year. How much of that is profit? Well, Amazon has 0.35% profit margins in 2013, for example. Who knows, but I'd say 10% would be very generous. So let's say 10%. That means they take 0.4m in profit.

Or look at something else, their team. They have about 35 employees and they're a software company in a competitive space. Software engineers easily make 100k, for Silicon Valley often 200k. And that's just salary. For every employee you then pay various expenses like taxes, healthcare, meal plans, software/hardware, office space, training etc etc. To say the average cost per employee is $100k would again be pretty generous for a typical software company. So that puts their employee costs at 3.5m already and we haven't even begun looking at their cost of liquidating bitcoin, making bank transfers to merchants or any of the server infrastructure they're built on.

So 10m annual profits for 2014 I think is a complete joke. But that doesn't mean the valuation is wrong. I think 160m is a very normal valuation if you look at Bitpay's numbers today, their growth rate, the prospects of the market and apply a discounted cash flow model to that. Guess what, Richard Branson and Peter Thiel have done valuations before.
DeathAndTaxes
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May 19, 2014, 09:09:56 PM
 #43

Guess what, Richard Branson and Peter Thiel have done valuations before.

/thread.

It is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it and people were willing to pay it.  Now Branson and Thiel may have massively overpaid as concluded by armchair investors who have never written a million dollar check before but I doubt it.
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May 25, 2014, 03:42:27 PM
 #44

Ridiculous compared to, say, a company called Nest, that just sold for $3.2 billion? They make fancy thermostats, haven't sold very many of them. Or Tesla, valued the same as GM. Tesla has sold as many cars since they were founded in 2010 as GM sells every day of the year including weekends. And Tesla lost $1 billion doing it, after receiving hundreds of millions in green handouts. $160M for Bitpay? It's a steal.
bryant.coleman
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May 25, 2014, 04:23:52 PM
 #45

Ridiculous compared to, say, a company called Nest, that just sold for $3.2 billion? They make fancy thermostats, haven't sold very many of them. Or Tesla, valued the same as GM. Tesla has sold as many cars since they were founded in 2010 as GM sells every day of the year including weekends. And Tesla lost $1 billion doing it, after receiving hundreds of millions in green handouts. $160M for Bitpay? It's a steal.

Intelligent people invest in companies and ventures, which are having the maximum potential to grow and expand their business. When I say intelligent, I mean innovative people such as Richard Branson, and not old school investors like Warren Buffet.
TheTruth4
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May 25, 2014, 08:44:11 PM
 #46

GoCoin, founded by Brock Pierce, was able to obtain $500,000 USD of VC capital from their two(?) bedroom home/office above a restaurant in Singapore, with 95% of its customer base residing in the US. Surely, BitPay is worth six times that.
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May 25, 2014, 09:56:01 PM
 #47

Please, bitpay is a pioneer in a virgin market that will likely be worth billions of dollars
Maybe fundamentally too high, but certainly not if you look at how valley VCs gauge potential and allocate capital

True, but the barrier to entry is low.  It will possibly be a very crowded space.  Does bitpay have anything innovative?

They have grown to the point, where name recognition alone is enough to make up for some lack in innovation.   When you think of merchant services (in regards to BTC), the two names that basically come to mind (for me at least), are Bitpay and Coinbase.

Has anyone done an independent valuation of Coinbase?
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