Bitcoin Forum
June 19, 2024, 10:16:14 AM *
News: Voting for pizza day contest
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: 51% can be prevented so long as all nodes agree.  (Read 2767 times)
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079


Gerald Davis


View Profile
June 18, 2014, 12:23:02 AM
 #61

Why not change to just one giant pool, sort of. In a pool, the coinbase transaction has the pool's address, not the miner's address. That could be changed to output to a collective list of all miners addresses.

Congratulations, you re-invented P2Pool. Eligius does the same thing: paying the miners directly instead of paying everything to the Pool's wallet (Both examples still use the traditional approach for alt-coins).

There is a bit of a definition issue though: miners generate blocks, while hashers generate proof-of-work. We are in this crisis mainly because those two functions have been separated.

While I understand setting up merged mining may be costly and a lot of work; hashers need to understand that they have to monitor the entities they are lending their hash-power to.


LOL  Except mine would be forced on you.

How?  A pool could connect to p2pool (or your p2pool re-invention) and miners could choose to connect to that pool instead.  PoW is by design a nearly perfectly parallel problem.

One thousand miners can appear to be a single node in any system you devise.  There are some systems proposed but they involve zero knowledge proofs which prevent the (secure) sharing of mining information
QuestionAuthority
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393


You lead and I'll watch you walk away.


View Profile
June 18, 2014, 06:37:15 AM
 #62

Why not change to just one giant pool, sort of. In a pool, the coinbase transaction has the pool's address, not the miner's address. That could be changed to output to a collective list of all miners addresses.

Congratulations, you re-invented P2Pool. Eligius does the same thing: paying the miners directly instead of paying everything to the Pool's wallet (Both examples still use the traditional approach for alt-coins).

There is a bit of a definition issue though: miners generate blocks, while hashers generate proof-of-work. We are in this crisis mainly because those two functions have been separated.

While I understand setting up merged mining may be costly and a lot of work; hashers need to understand that they have to monitor the entities they are lending their hash-power to.


LOL  Except mine would be forced on you.

How?  A pool could connect to p2pool (or your p2pool re-invention) and miners could choose to connect to that pool instead.  PoW is by design a nearly perfectly parallel problem.

One thousand miners can appear to be a single node in any system you devise.  There are some systems proposed but they involve zero knowledge proofs which prevent the (secure) sharing of mining information


You know what? I just want the devs of this cute little beta software to find a solution to a problem that I have been reading about for three and a half years. If it can't be solved then tell us there is no reasonable solution to fixing this problem.

Gavin Andresen almost did that when he said, "Bitcoin is still a work in progress, and you should only risk time or money on it that you can afford to lose." And "A malicious 51% attacker could prevent transactions or new blocks from other people getting accepted, effectively stopping all payments and shutting down the network.”

Since I'm not really fond of losing any money he is telling me to cash out. Since this happened years ago with Deepbit, it's still happening now with Ghash.IO, the devs aren't fixing it, the former lead dev says Bitcoin is very risky, I have to assume I'm being told not to buy any more Bitcoin.

p2pool isn't a solution because greed is forcing people to gravitate toward Ghash.IO. If I won the lotto, decided that I was pissed at all those bitcoiners and wanted to hurt them I might just start a 0 fee pool to capture most of the network and then shut it down. If I was a government and believed that this little charade has gone on long enough I might start a 0 fee pool to capture most of the network and then shut it down. My solution is stupid and I know it. At least I'm attempting to come up with something but I don't have any mandate to find a fix. What are the devs doing about it?

Grinder
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1284
Merit: 1001


View Profile
June 18, 2014, 07:38:48 AM
 #63

Imagine managing a miner with 80%, competing with 3 miners with 5% each, the last 5% spread around. To keep that market share, you have to be on top of everything. Getting the best new hardware, keeping a stable power supply, keeping the personell, be alert around the clock and around the year. Even at 80%, you can be only slightly more profitable than the next miner. A slight misstep, and you loose some blocks, eroding your profit, transforming it to a loss. A chance for another miner to have a go.

If you have 80% the rest depends on your goodwill to get any profits at all. You can just ignore the other blocks and take 100% of the profits, or delay the release of your blocks until somebody else finds one and then immediately override it by sending out two blocks. Doing this you would also be the one who decides how much it would cost to use the Bitcoin network.
Erdogan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005



View Profile
June 18, 2014, 07:47:03 AM
 #64

Imagine managing a miner with 80%, competing with 3 miners with 5% each, the last 5% spread around. To keep that market share, you have to be on top of everything. Getting the best new hardware, keeping a stable power supply, keeping the personell, be alert around the clock and around the year. Even at 80%, you can be only slightly more profitable than the next miner. A slight misstep, and you loose some blocks, eroding your profit, transforming it to a loss. A chance for another miner to have a go.

If you have 80% the rest depends on your goodwill to get any profits at all. You can just ignore the other blocks and take 100% of the profits, or delay the release of your blocks until somebody else finds one and then immediately override it by sending out two blocks. Doing this you would also be the one who decides how much it would cost to use the Bitcoin network.

If you are in that position, and use it to try to launch a stealth chain fork to your advantage, you risk losing, with high probability, your investment which at this point will be hundreds of millions of USD2014.
zimmah
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005



View Profile
June 18, 2014, 09:14:52 AM
 #65

Well, if the pools do not naturally even out in popularity (with that I mean no pool has more than 30% hashrate, and the second largest pool is about as large as the largest pool) than we could try to figure out a way to punish pools that are too large for their own good.
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!