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Author Topic: is these coins are ponzi or else realmoney?  (Read 1158 times)
kingkedi (OP)
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September 12, 2014, 12:45:51 PM
 #1

i have seen some coins made more % and how it possible and was it really money?
how the price incresaes or just a ponzi
dbshck
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September 12, 2014, 12:51:36 PM
 #2

The price of coins(and anything) rise because there's someone who would buy above the market price.
Usually happens on something that has high demand.

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Jamie_Boulder
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September 12, 2014, 12:54:37 PM
 #3

Like every other crypto, the value comes from a general agreement that it's worth something, usually backed by demand.

Gold uses the same protocol.

Bonam
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September 12, 2014, 02:52:13 PM
 #4

The price of cryptocurrencies is determined by supply and demand, just like other commodities. Many alt coins are indeed scams or ponzis. Bitcoin has been demonstrated not to be a ponzi scheme in the classical sense, although it is certainly possible that they end up worthless in the long term anyway.
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September 12, 2014, 02:57:30 PM
 #5

How do the price rise or fall?  Is that the general question?  Price volatility, small market cap, whale buys shit load or dumps their coin?  This is just general market activity.

If you're referring to alt coins, they're all generally pump and dump schemes.  Similar to penny stocks and pink sheet stocks.

Just stick to BTC if you're dealing with Cryptocurrency.

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ColdScam
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September 12, 2014, 07:01:32 PM
 #6

Lot of altcoins are pump and dump schemes so yes you should consider them as ponzis.
CryptoCarmen
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September 12, 2014, 09:35:20 PM
 #7

i have seen some coins made more % and how it possible and was it really money?
how the price incresaes or just a ponzi

all coins do lots of +% and also -%
kingkedi (OP)
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September 13, 2014, 04:31:13 AM
 #8

The price of cryptocurrencies is determined by supply and demand, just like other commodities. Many alt coins are indeed scams or ponzis. Bitcoin has been demonstrated not to be a ponzi scheme in the classical sense, although it is certainly possible that they end up worthless in the long term anyway.

ok.yes when there is one who is having good demand others also enter to have same and in mean time scammers emerge also

so my question is so mnay saying we use same sturcture as bitcoin or else even more
so why so many in this thread claim that bitcoin only was safe
and there are no others who are genuine like bitcoin
Bonam
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September 13, 2014, 08:02:02 AM
 #9

The price of cryptocurrencies is determined by supply and demand, just like other commodities. Many alt coins are indeed scams or ponzis. Bitcoin has been demonstrated not to be a ponzi scheme in the classical sense, although it is certainly possible that they end up worthless in the long term anyway.

ok.yes when there is one who is having good demand others also enter to have same and in mean time scammers emerge also

so my question is so mnay saying we use same sturcture as bitcoin or else even more
so why so many in this thread claim that bitcoin only was safe
and there are no others who are genuine like bitcoin

Few other altcoins are exact copies of bitcoin. They all come with variations, different algorithms, premining, etc. In many cases, the creator of the altcoin or early investors have an unfair advantage. Or, even if no scam is built into the coin, the small market cap of the coin allows a single trader to significantly affect the market to their advantage. Furthermore, all of these alternative coins serve little real world purpose that is not already adequately provided by bitcoin, which has much larger market cap and liquidity.

That being said, bitcoin itself is very far from safe. It could succeed in the long term, but it could also turn out that it's nothing but a temporary fad and be gone in a few years. In fact I think the chances are very high that bitcoin will disappear.
sx100
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September 13, 2014, 10:49:29 AM
 #10

I think of alt coins as more like stocks and shares, or gold. Fiat money has a more stable value than these type of investments, but investments can earn 9or lose) you a lot more in a short time.
Moneroman88
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September 13, 2014, 11:26:52 AM
 #11

All these coins are indeed Ponzi scams. You are obviously intelligent @ OP. Yet one coin is not a scam ponzi like all the others (including Bitcoin BTW). That coin has the best community, best technology, best wallets and best distribution, Monero. The price is still dirt cheap. Everyone can become multimillionaire with Monero, I'd argue 1-2 BTC investment is enough to become millionaire through XMR. And the best about it is that you won't have to convert to FIAT because it will be accepted all over the world within 5 years. Yes you read that right, even your mother will use it. No matter where, Monero will be all around the world payable via NFC.
kingkedi (OP)
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September 14, 2014, 04:11:46 AM
 #12

All these coins are indeed Ponzi scams. You are obviously intelligent @ OP. Yet one coin is not a scam ponzi like all the others (including Bitcoin BTW). That coin has the best community, best technology, best wallets and best distribution, Monero. The price is still dirt cheap. Everyone can become multimillionaire with Monero, I'd argue 1-2 BTC investment is enough to become millionaire through XMR. And the best about it is that you won't have to convert to FIAT because it will be accepted all over the world within 5 years. Yes you read that right, even your mother will use it. No matter where, Monero will be all around the world payable via NFC.

i think you are just may be an employee of monero and that is why you are apprciatiing monero and this kind of dramas are not good better if you wnat to answer genuine then answer otherwise stop promoting
AltCoinBuddah
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September 14, 2014, 04:28:50 AM
 #13

I think of alt coins as more like stocks and shares, or gold. Fiat money has a more stable value than these type of investments, but investments can earn 9or lose) you a lot more in a short time.

It is pretty much like he says. Coins work like stocks on a stock exchange but are not regulated like them. It's wild west time for Cryptocoins.  Cool
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September 14, 2014, 04:58:01 AM
 #14

I think of alt coins as more like stocks and shares, or gold. Fiat money has a more stable value than these type of investments, but investments can earn 9or lose) you a lot more in a short time.

It is pretty much like he says. Coins work like stocks on a stock exchange but are not regulated like them. It's wild west time for Cryptocoins.  Cool

what is it do think your getting when you buy into a ponzi scheme ?

there has been some historic and famous examples with parallels to crypto coins.
the one that springs to mind for me is when i hear the word Ponzi is from the 1980's.. Water filters (google it)

edit:
google says..

http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.ca/2013/01/so-how-do-you-recognize-pyramid-scheme.html

Quote
So how *do* you recognize a pyramid scheme? Fitzpatrick shared some tips
Robert Fitzpatrick, who runs Pyramid Scheme Alert, has been warning people about pyramid schemes (and its very close cousin, MLM) for decades. He just penned an article on Seeking Alpha. Here's a quick summary (any bad interpretation is mine)


Recognition is NOT Sign of Legitimacy

Equinox Intl sold water filters and such and was loudly featured on Inc. Magazine as #1 in "Inc 500 fastest growing privately held companies", with 100000 distributors, as of 1996. By 1999, it was shut down as a pyramid scheme by the FTC and various state regulators.


Pyramid Selling Schemes Are Currently Legal in Certain Forms

Pyramid selling schemes are about recruiting people, not about selling. Yet modern MLM companies, even those listed on Wall Street, simply disclose that they may get hit by regulators for being too close to a pyramid scheme (without admitting to be one) but still structure their comp plan to entice people to recruit, not sell. By disclosing that "risk" to the public, they go on operating.


One hit is all it takes

MLM, due to its complexity and volatility, can attract quite a bit of capital and interest. However, MLM's weak foundation means one hit, by ANY regulatory agency, will likely bring down the company. In 2008, then Attorney General Jerry Brown hit YTBI (i.e. Your Travel Biz) with an injunction that it's a chain recruiting business opportunity. While the case resulted in a settlement (the company agreed not to do business in California and paid a fine), that essentially drove the company out of business.




What's Volatile for Wall Street is Even WORSE for Main Street

When hedge fund managers, who analyzes companies for a living, can't agree on what is the legitimacy of a MLM company, what chances do the average Joe have? Millions of people already have stakes in the company... as independent affiliates/associates/distributors/IBOs/whatever. They had already put money and effort and time into a company they may not understand!


So What Really Is a Pyramid Scheme?

A better, more "generic" term is "endless chain scheme", a scheme where salespeople recruit more salespeople (by selling the "business"). That's the most basic definition. Anything else that "infers" legitimacy, like endorsements, personal experience, income claims, and such, are irrelevant.


Retailing, or Recruiting?

An endless chain scheme can have products, lots of products, but what role do they actually serve in the company? MLM is supposed to market products, and salespeople are supposed to SELL products (to "ultimate consumers"). If an IBO choose NOT to sell products, but merely to consume the products ("I just joined for the discount") did his upline (sponsor, whatever) achieved retailing, or recruiting?


The Self-Consumption Gray Area

The primary debate between Ackman and Herbalife is same question as above: is it retailing, or recruiting?

According to Herbalife themselves, a "distributor" can be a self-consumer ("I joined for the discount"), a small-time retailer (with no MLM commission, just the 25% markup to SRP), or a big-time reseller with downlines (with increased markup to SRP, plus MLM commission). Herbalife even claimed that "73% of all distributors joined primarily for the discount" based on one of their surveys of 408 former distributors. (why former?)

Ackman disagrees about the idea that people would join a MLM "just for the discount" (25%) at lowest level. These purchases would be so small that their upline would need many of them to get a promotion to upper ranks based on sales volume.

So which is easier: selling products individually at retail... or recruit a bunch of these "I just want the discount" distributors?

As a prospective member who's thinking about joining, are you going to make a little bit by selling retail, or by recruiting a whole bunch of these "I just want discount" people? And what are your chances of "making it" (i.e. making serious income)?



http://seekingalpha.com/article/1107821-recognizing-pyramids-without-a-lawyer-an-economist-or-the-ftc

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September 14, 2014, 06:03:44 AM
 #15

trading: some dudes pool together their money and redistibute it.

most coins: shortlived one or two-time pumps for the trading and mining - fun

very few coins: potentially wide adopted real money

noobs have a hard time telling which is which

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September 15, 2014, 10:12:50 AM
 #16

The price of cryptocurrencies is determined by supply and demand, just like other commodities. Many alt coins are indeed scams or ponzis. Bitcoin has been demonstrated not to be a ponzi scheme in the classical sense, although it is certainly possible that they end up worthless in the long term anyway.

I have the same feeling that Bitcoin in some days will cost nothing at all. BTC does not secured and as an every financial instrument  in the wrong hands it may burst. For example, the scheme of mortgage securitization was great but in the hands of greedy bankers it resulted in a crisis
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September 15, 2014, 11:15:13 AM
 #17

trading: some dudes pool together their money and redistibute it.

most coins: shortlived one or two-time pumps for the trading and mining - fun

very few coins: potentially wide adopted real money

noobs have a hard time telling which is which

That's so difficult to find out which coin is a long-term coin and which is not. At the beginning I was thinking that LTC is a long-term coin and everybody were shouting at each corner that LTC is a silver ( by analogy with Bitcoins vs Gold) but now I doubt it is true.
I was invested in some alt coins but they also don't look like a long term coins but have a good dev team because I was thinking that the clue to success is a great dev team but the time has shown that it is not always the truth
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September 15, 2014, 11:16:52 AM
 #18

A ponzi is where group A is paid % more from group B, and continues until you run out of investors or money. Coins aren't really ponzis in that sense. They're more like penny stocks.

BTC - 14kYyhhWZwSJFHAjNTtyhRVSu157nE92gF
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September 15, 2014, 11:56:11 AM
 #19

A ponzi is where group A is paid % more from group B, and continues until you run out of investors or money. Coins aren't really ponzis in that sense. They're more like penny stocks.

hmmm pretty good explanation, I was thinking that any scheme is a ponzi scheme and haven't seen any difference btw them

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