Looking for details on PoS Rewards aka "interest" / coin source

[TheLittleDuke]

Apologies if this has been asked/answered before -- I'm trying to google my way to the answer but I'm just not getting my head wrapped around this part...

I totally get TXfee's et al in terms of "end game" for a mined out block-chain like Bitcoin....but...

If a coinbase is completely pre-mined or "mined-out" -- where do the PoS reward coins come from?

Let's say I have POSCOIN with 1M coins total, and they have all been mined out (premined or PoW phase, whatever)

How are PoS rewards aka "interest" generated ?

Assuming our POSCOIN is advertised to pay 5% on staked coins -- does this mean that, in theory, the coinbase is going to grow by 50,000 coins at the end of year one?

[TheLittleDuke]

http://www.peercoin.net/minting

I THINK I get it now...basically you ignore the "total coins" thing since new coins are leaking into the system, and it appears that some coinbases "destroy" coins by consuming TXfee's

I guess I need to look at the source code to get my head fully wrapped

Any additional comments or pointers are still appreciated!

-dvd

[ChuckOne]

The same goes for Nxt.

Here, we have to live with the fact that forgers content themselves with the transactions fees only. However, Nxt builds up the fact that actual businesses using Nxt forge for the sake of securing their stake in the cryptosystem.

[TheLittleDuke]

Have not look too closely at NXT -- just aware of its existence...

What does it have a "stake or die?" poison pill?

Something that would "negatively reward" hoarders?

Like the "expiry" built into Namecoin

Just thinking outloud here really...

-dvd

[TheLittleDuke]

Okay just did a cursory look-up on NXT and this has to be the most ridiculous red-mark I've ever read:

"WHO CREATED NXT?
NXT was created by an anonymous developer named BCNext. Since creating NXT, BCNext has stepped aside and let the community control the direction and future of NXT."

JFC -- just OWN IT FFS!  Stop trying to artificially manufacture "mysterious origins" -- the only one dumb enough to believe those statements are 14-year-old boys and 30 something "fanboys" who still live in their mothers basement and carry the title of "sandwich artist" on their plastic nametag.

I'm going to create a coinbase that is initially linked and backed by my personal BTC & LTC assets and use my real name.  It will live and die on its own, and I'll own it for what it is.

-dvd

[TaunSew]

Developer anonymity is a requirement to avoid legal trouble for running an illegal securities IPO.  A lot of coins get around that by having a PoW phase in the first week.

Actually the real reason for NxT being so controversial was its' initial distribution and complaints about the code quality back in early 2014.

[TheLittleDuke]

Developer anonymity is a requirement to avoid legal trouble for running an illegal securities IPO.  A lot of coins get around that by having a PoW phase in the first week.

Actually the real reason for NxT being so controversial was its' initial distribution and complaints about the code quality back in early 2014.

I think that idea of "developer anonymity" is pretty thinly veiled -- the government always follows the money...

I'm more impressed by what the Karmacoin group is doing -- form an LLC, or the Clean Water Coin with their 501(c)3.

We're exploring filing a SCOR (Small Company Offering Registration) vehicle available in Minnesota and other states in order to sanction the fund raise where FIAT is concerned.

It's going to be really interesting to see what platforms like Ethereum do when a Distributed Autonomous Organization starts executing.  You combine that with the legally binding "irrevocable trust" and other than being thrown in jail/prison, your assets become essentially bullet proof.

[TheLittleDuke]

Actually the real reason for NxT being so controversial was its' initial distribution and complaints about the code quality back in early 2014.

Maybe the "developer" was just embarrassed by the code quality and didn't want the public ridicule :p

[Daedelus]

Actually the real reason for NxT being so controversial was its' initial distribution and complaints about the code quality back in early 2014.

Maybe the "developer" was just embarrassed by the code quality and didn't want the public ridicule :p

Nxt source was delivered in one file and did everything in 1400 lines IIRC. The aim was to bring in developers in to split the files, dig through the code and do the refactoring required and build a self sufficient community. There were three deliberately injected flaws in the source to reward bug hunters and along the way they did find many other bugs that has made Nxt as robust as it has been so far. There have been no major issues yet  

Bug hunting thread is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397183.0

[TheLittleDuke]

Actually the real reason for NxT being so controversial was its' initial distribution and complaints about the code quality back in early 2014.

Maybe the "developer" was just embarrassed by the code quality and didn't want the public ridicule :p

Nxt source was delivered in one file and did everything in 1400 lines IIRC. The aim was to bring in developers in to split the files, dig through the code and do the refactoring required and build a self sufficient community. There were three deliberately injected flaws in the source to reward bug hunters and along the way they did find many other bugs that has made Nxt as robust as it has been so far. There have been no major issues yet  

Bug hunting thread is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397183.0

That's actually a really good method of creating esprit de corps! 

Research shows that team building is more effective when people "suffer" versus all the "group hugs / trust falling / and singing kumbai-ya"

[ChuckOne]

Research shows that team building is more effective when people "suffer" versus all the "group hugs / trust falling / and singing kumbai-ya"

Interesting. Source?

[ChuckOne]

What does it have a "stake or die?" poison pill?

Something that would "negatively reward" hoarders?

Like the "expiry" built into Namecoin

No actually not. The stakeholders are the fortune of Nxt because they protect and ensure further development of Nxt just because they want their share to become more and more valuable.

After receiving one NXT from another account, that NXT takes an idle period of 1440 blocks. After that time, that NXT simulates a small mining rig. And as you know the more mining rigs you have, the more blocks you mine. Same here except that we call it forging AND that the process is a deterministic pseudo-random process.

Pseudo-random because at each block the queue of forgers that are going to forge are pseudo-randomly shuffled (with maintaining the probability: the more NXTs the higher the probability that you forge)
Deterministic because we can predict the next forgers and can therefore build a system called Transparent Forging that allows us to minimize network load. That is required to get Visa-like transactions per second.

[TheLittleDuke]

Research shows that team building is more effective when people "suffer" versus all the "group hugs / trust falling / and singing kumbai-ya"

Interesting. Source?

Something I picked up in a couple classes while doing my MBA at the University of Minnesota, Carlson School of Management -- lots of articles, many by Margaret Neal, Professor of Organizational Behavior at Stanford's Graduate School of Business -- here's a summary:

http://www.hoopskills.com/team-building/

-dvd