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Author Topic: Decentralized P2P Exchange Proposals: exactly how do you fix the fiat issue?  (Read 2196 times)
waxwing
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February 14, 2014, 01:19:21 AM
 #21

No government will allow you to get fiat into Bitcoin anonymously, they will start cracking down on anyone doing these types of transactions very soon.
Which is why we (well some of us) are trying to make the process basically invisible. It will not be perfectly so, but we have to move in that direction. I like to call it "steganographic banking".

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Best idea for people is to start using Bitcoin itself, this is what Bitcoin was meant to be. People need to start offer their goods and services for Bitcoin. Any form of fiat is poison to the Bitcoin ecosystem. Bitcoin and fiat do not mix well and never will.

The more fiat gets mixed in with Bitcoin the more excuses governments will have to get involved, by cutting out fiat you are cutting the root of the problem.

Nobody is trying to mix fiat into Bitcoin - the problem is that fiat exists, whereas for 99% of people today, Bitcoin does not.

PGP fingerprint 2B6FC204D9BF332D062B 461A141001A1AF77F20B (use email to contact)
traderman
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February 14, 2014, 01:23:44 AM
 #22

The more you try to move fiat into Bitcoin anonymously the more problems you will have. And I am not talking just technical or trust ones.

No government will allow you to get fiat into Bitcoin anonymously, they will start cracking down on anyone doing these types of transactions very soon.
Which is why we (well some of us) are trying to make the process basically invisible. It will not be perfectly so, but we have to move in that direction. I like to call it "steganographic banking".

Quote
Best idea for people is to start using Bitcoin itself, this is what Bitcoin was meant to be. People need to start offer their goods and services for Bitcoin. Any form of fiat is poison to the Bitcoin ecosystem. Bitcoin and fiat do not mix well and never will.

The more fiat gets mixed in with Bitcoin the more excuses governments will have to get involved, by cutting out fiat you are cutting the root of the problem.

Nobody is trying to mix fiat into Bitcoin - the problem is that fiat exists, whereas for 99% of people today, Bitcoin does not.
waxwing
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February 14, 2014, 01:37:33 AM
 #23

The more you try to move fiat into Bitcoin anonymously the more problems you will have. And I am not talking just technical or trust ones.

The very existence of Bitcoin is based on the fact that it can't be stopped. All previous digital currencies, however much they were based on entirely honest and moral principles and processes, were attacked and shut down. The only processes in this financial area that are allowed to continue are - well, none - none are allowed to continue, it's just that some can't be prevented.

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k99
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February 05, 2015, 02:34:01 PM
 #24

I know that this topic is a bit out of date, but just in case you are still interested in a P2P Fiat-BTC exchange, I wanted to post an update of our project and announcement for our crowd funding campaign which will end in a few days (on February 9th).

Bitsquare released an alpha version in December and it can be tested at our regular testing sessions with other traders (testnet).
Today 17:00 CET we have such a session. Feel free to join us on our IRC channel #bitsquare-trading on Freenode.
Further information can be found here:
https://github.com/bitsquare/bitsquare/wiki/Bitsquare-WAN-Parties

Regarding the crowd funding campaign:
We are using Lighthouse as decentralized crowd funding solution to iteratively fund the development of every milestone, leading to a fully functional version 1.0.
The funding goal is 120 BTC for the next milestone and the campaign ends in a few days on February 9th. 
Please visit our web page for more details:
https://bitsquare.io/crowdfunding

If you like to support that project please help us to spread the word.

Best regards,
Manfred

https://bisq.network  |  GPG Key: 6A6B2C46
BTCLuke
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February 05, 2015, 09:46:01 PM
 #25

I would make jokes about this being an incredible display of necromancy, but the timing actually makes a lot of sense.

For years, even as early as 2011, many of us have been searching for a P2P exchange solution primarily because we're concerned that a day would come when we'd run out of options to buy bitcoins privately.

Now, especially with the coinbase and bitlicense news lately, the time is rapidly catching up to us. Localbitcoins is the only sure way for 'murikans to find 'unmarked coins' these days if you don't have an inside deal... And there have been stings recently against localbitcoin sellers.

So it's time to re-open the subject, this time out of more desperation than idealism.

I see lots of projects like Bitsquare that are trying to make a P2P OTC Exchange, but never an attempt at a real-time exchange, that works like a P2P bitstamp. These OTC exchanges can certainly help ease the problem, but I don't really see them being any better than OpenBazaar or localbitcoins itself for the purpose of helping anyone get coins privately... And that's simply not good enough for most people.

Why have real-time P2P exchanges been given up? Because no one has invented yet an easily-obtainable, universal crypto-token that represents the USD or other nationalized Fiat on these exchanges. Or have they?

The fear was that such a financial instrument would be hunted down by the secret service like eGold and Liberty Reserve were, for 'counterfeiting USD.' I felt this was as valid fear and haven't looked into it in over a year.

However now we have Fiat-locked-value financial assets from Coinapult, BitReserve, and now Tether!

They may be chased down and destroyed by the SS too one day, but they're here now and perhaps the right coder might figure out a way to tokenize these assets and feed them into a real time exchange like the DEX proposal I made years ago.

If successful, that would allow people to sell properly-backed, trustless Fiat tokens, which would make the exchange flow as follows:

  • Alice buys Crypto-USD tokens from anyone in places like OpenBazaar or LocalBitcoins. She can trust that someone will always buy them back for the same USD later. (Unless the backing company like Coinapult goes under.)
  • Alice loads them into her P2P Exchange app, where they look and act exactly like USD in real-time exchanges with massive, global, borderless order books.
  • Alice trades them to Bob for bitcoins for any cryptosecurity, in whatever quantity she wants.
  • Bob 'cashes them out' back to real USD when he wants, at a place like OpenBazaar or Localbitcoins.

This appears totally do-able now with the financial products from Bitreserve, coinapult and Tether... And a lighthouse campaign could raise the funds to make such an exchange pretty easily, I'd think.

Now the question becomes: Is the process above too unwieldy for most people? Would fewer people want to put their trust in those three token-issuers than they do in the localbitcoins traders of today? In other words, is it simply too much to ask humans to trust crypto-fiat tokens to be as good as the real thing? (Especially since there is a little risk.)

Luke Parker
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February 06, 2015, 12:24:39 AM
 #26

Not only that, but how in hell do you know the person that you are selling to isn't some gov related force setting a honeypot?
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