Could fiat-pegged altcoins replace Bitcoin?

[Yurizhai]

i'm not interested in pegged coins and also not interested in overly complicated pegged coins because pegging isn't even possible - not in free market

ok, so it's competitor. Neither of them is interesting to me... I'll buy real dollar or real euro not some experimental shitcoin. I let others betatest with their money ...

I'm interested in trustless and decentral coins aswell as a free market so your complicated toycoins are really not interesting to me.

I don't think I'm going to be able to leave this conversation without calling you an idiot. You've made it pretty clear you don't  know what you're talking about.

[altcoin hitler]

i'm not interested in pegged coins and also not interested in overly complicated pegged coins because pegging isn't even possible - not in free market

ok, so it's competitor. Neither of them is interesting to me... I'll buy real dollar or real euro not some experimental shitcoin. I let others betatest with their money ...

I'm interested in trustless and decentral coins aswell as a free market so your complicated toycoins are really not interesting to me.

I don't think I'm going to be able to leave this conversation without calling you an idiot. You've made it pretty clear you don't  know what you're talking about.

i don't have time to look into stuff that's impossible to do without centralisation or a trust-based solution and/or denying the free market. I'll stick with the real thing.

Overcomplicated scams is a thing i do not have time for.

Let's continue this conversation in 6 to 10 months ...

[FandangledGizmo]

It's possible BitShares (BTS) could replace Bitcoin if BitAssets become popular. (They haven't been promoted to mainstream yet as they're waiting to release 1.0 later this month/next.)

 Bitcoin has >$1 million of selling pressure a day in new coins coming from miners.
- Most Bitcoin merchants don't hold BTC due to volatility and their tight margins, so the more utility BTC gains and the more purchases are made the more selling pressure is created.

So the higher in price and the more popular Bitcoin becomes the less it is able to sustain itself as selling pressure from the miners and retailers grows proportionally. So except during intermittent bouts of popularity the graph of BTC may well like LiteCoin and other POW generally trend south..

BitShares has BitAssets which hold the value of real world currencies and commodities.

- BitUSD by BitShares has the stability & mirrors the value of real USD so merchants are inclined to hold it http://whatisbitusd.com/
- To make BitUSD secure, 300% of BTS collateral is required to create it.

The result is unlike Bitcoin as BitUSD (& other BitAssets) grows in utility, BTS demand will experience rapid growth.

BitShares 1.0 is coming soon...

[waaat?]

 Bitcoin has >$1 million of selling pressure a day in new coins coming from miners.

that's correct but your conclusion isn't

 the more utility BTC gains and the more purchases are made the more selling pressure is created.

wrong - only coins that were bought can be sold - it's a zero sum game. You're telling myths.




"So the higher in price and the more popular Bitcoin becomes the less it is able to sustain itself as selling pressure from the miners and retailers grows proportionally."

correct - only from miners though ... that's why you switch to low inflation coin not pegged shitcoin with no advantage

low inflation alts are the answer actually.

Nobody wants 'pegged' coins - not even merchants because that shit isn't even tested for anything. Nobody accepts bitUSD - i know i wouldn't take it in a trade.

BitUSD is for monkeys only. Same people buy ripple or paycoin.

Did anyone read satoshi whitepaper? You people are a bunch of clowns tbh.

Pegging a coin to fiat *facepalm* - there is no demand for that. Merchants can accept BTC no matter what price. Volatility isn't a problem for merchants. That's myth #2 debunked.

any more questions?


read my lips: no demand for 'pegged' shitcoins

[FandangledGizmo]

 Bitcoin has >$1 million of selling pressure a day in new coins coming from miners.

that's correct but your conclusion isn't

 the more utility BTC gains and the more purchases are made the more selling pressure is created.

wrong - only coins that were bought can be sold - it's a zero sum game. You're telling myths.




"So the higher in price and the more popular Bitcoin becomes the less it is able to sustain itself as selling pressure from the miners and retailers grows proportionally."

correct - only from miners though ... that's why you switch to low inflation coin not pegged shitcoin with no advantage

low inflation alts are the answer actually.

Nobody wants 'pegged' coins - not even merchants because that shit isn't even tested for anything. Nobody accepts bitUSD - i know i wouldn't take it in a trade.

You're right that only coins that were bought can be sold. But if you agree that most retailers don't hold BTC and sell it on because of volatility then you agree that a purchase made with your BTC is the equivalent of putting your BTC up for sale, ergo the more you buy with BTC the more selling pressure you create.

If you agree that merchants are more likely to hold a BitUSD as it doesn't have volatility (It also pays interest) then
the same situation doesn't happen with BitShares. (Also as BitUSD requires 300% collateral to create, every one creates 3X more demand for BTS than the equivalent in Bitcoin anyway.) It will be quite something to behold once 1.0 is released

You are also correct that low inflation options are the solution. BitShares inflation is currently less than 1%.

(BTS should also soon pass LTC which has 30% inflation and pays $2.5 million to miners a month at the current CAP, there's definitely not that amount of new demand coming in, in a bear market, so they are pretty doomed.)

[waaat?]

i agree: selling coins to a merchant is equivalent to selling a coin on the market

i don't agree merchants would hold BitUSD before they would hold the real USD - why would they? It's only more risk for them.

Bitshares isn't interesting after how protoshares and lottoshares dumped.
These guys' coins can dump on you any moment - we have seen that in the past. They lost credibility. I don't want to hold these coins - especially not longterm.

litecoin inflation is high, so is bitcoin inflation - but buying Bitshares isn't a thing that's a real alternative to it - it's gonna dump almost certainly ... this week or next month - not a difference. It's going to dump sooner or later - end of story. Not good to put money into.

When it dumps, it dumps hard. These guys coins always dump extra-hard because when they do they fail. Bitcoin/Litecoin dumps but not that hard.

[FandangledGizmo]

i agree: selling coins to a merchant is equivalent to selling a coin on the market

i don't agree merchants would hold BitUSD before they would hold the real USD - why would they? It's only more risk for them.

In terms of risk, BitAssets are transparently backed by an average of 300% collateral and pay a few % interest.
Many centralised banks have started charging negative interest rates, they also work on fractional reserve with less than 10% available collateral and are widely agreed to be largely insolvent.

http://bitsharesblocks.com/assets/asset?id=USD

So a BitUSD compares quite favourably and thanks to TITAN is also very private which has other advantages too.

They are also currently working with teams in places like Argentina, where inflation is extremely high and USD is highly sought after but hard to come by.

[gustav]

unobtanium beats all those coins mentioned here any day

#just sayin'

[toknormal]

The whole premise of this question is silly.

Bitcoin and 'pegged coins' occupy mutually exclusive but complimentary market sectors.

Bitcoin is by definition a monetary base. It is not backed by anything and therefore represents the 'base money supply' as far as a crypto-economy is concerned.

On the other hand, BitUSD is not base money. It is backed by collateral in the form of Bitshares.

BitUSD and other 'pegged' currencies can provide liquidity to a commercial market that's not interested in risk assets but requires a stable currency for goods exchange.

Bitcoin and 'pegged coins' are therefore complimentary. They are the tracks and the train of a crypto-economy.

[robrigo]

i agree: selling coins to a merchant is equivalent to selling a coin on the market

i don't agree merchants would hold BitUSD before they would hold the real USD - why would they? It's only more risk for them.

Bitshares isn't interesting after how protoshares and lottoshares dumped.
These guys' coins can dump on you any moment - we have seen that in the past. They lost credibility. I don't want to hold these coins - especially not longterm.

litecoin inflation is high, so is bitcoin inflation - but buying Bitshares isn't a thing that's a real alternative to it - it's gonna dump almost certainly ... this week or next month - not a difference. It's going to dump sooner or later - end of story. Not good to put money into.

When it dumps, it dumps hard. These guys coins always dump extra-hard because when they do they fail. Bitcoin/Litecoin dumps but not that hard.

To set the record straight- PTS was designed to be an investment vehicle for new DACs based on snapshot dates. The market would naturally value PTS as more directly before a snapshot, then go down after the snapshot. This was to spread the 50% of the initial distribution of BTSX amongst miners who decided to mine PTS. A snapshot is the state of a blockchain at a specific instant of time. You can use your PTS wallet at a later date to claim the snapshot in the new DAC. There has been multiple snapshots- initially BTSX, then DNS/VOTE (which was merged into BTS), MUSIC, PLAY, and some other third party DACs such as Rand Paul coin, Sparkle (PoW Bitshares) and DPOS PTS (upgraded PTS to save the network $$).

Lottoshares was a 3rd party DAC that wasn't officially supported by the BTS team.

Of course you are welcome to think that BTS is going to dump hard; but I think it will become the new defacto decentralized exchange in 2015 and beyond. There is so much utility coming in 2015 for BTS in terms of supporting architecture and a stable 1.0 release. Watch out.

[dwma]

After reading this thread there are 3 accounts with 70 activity exactly.  This means they were created within 2 weeks of each other and used to slam the site with screaming posts with no facts.  If you notice all 3 accounts attack BitShares by just random bullshit.

So...  are these real people...

or are they FUD spreading shills from a competing entity who realizes a true pegged coin solution could be huge ?

One of the largest reasons for people to not want to buy into BTC these days is the volatility.

[0nlyBTC]

From an average joe's point of view, something like Nubits is safer and could be reliable. I personally think that Nubits and Nu system has to prove that it can work. I have no doubts about the NU system but its needs to prove to everyone it can be pegged to the dollar 1:1 reliably. Once the Nu system reputation has been established, this does have value to the average person. I could see NuBits used as a mainstream currency like the dollar/euro, but replace Bitcoin, no. However on the flipside, I can't see Bitcoin being adopted as a mainstream currency because of the volatility involved.    

[dwma]

From an average joe's point of view, something like Nubits is safer and could be reliable. I personally think that Nubits and Nu system has to prove that it can work. I have no doubts about the NU system but its needs to prove to everyone it can be pegged to the dollar 1:1 reliably. Once the Nu system reputation has been established, this does have value to the average person. I could see NuBits used as a mainstream currency like the dollar/euro, but replace Bitcoin, no. However on the flipside, I can't see Bitcoin being adopted as a mainstream currency because of the volatility involved.    

Nubits will be trusted when they show their reserves.  I've heard they claim no counter-party risk. I've never seen anyone explain how that could be possibly be true, so they're already lying and can not be trusted.

[homo homini lupus]

right now even cowshit can replace bitcoin

[muhrohmat]

the only coin trying to do taht one year ago was doge coin i mean buy the speculation of low price and speedy trades and great offer but even that coiin become a bit less interesting passed 3 months and stabilaze in 60 stoshis each pieace. its is still a good coin for small trades but for large a mount its BTC not the mother of all till 2020 at least?.

[Winklevoss]

A pegged coin is simply then a digital representation of the coin its pegged too. while this gives stability it really breaks the idea of a crypto currency. IMO any currency should stand on its own. If a coin is pegged to a dollar why buy it? just buy the dollar its pegged too.

[StanLarimer]

Wow, how did I miss this thread?

Actually we don't see BitShares as competing with Bitcoin, we see it as a killer app supporting the Bitcoin ecosystem.

Pegged assets let you stay in crypto space with an instant hedge capability in a bear cycle.  No need to expose yourself to big fees and big brother to get in and out of Bitcoin, you just lock your value to whatever BitAsset you like (BitUSD, BitEUR, BitCNY, BitSilver, BitGold, even BitBTC) and ride out the storm.  And you earn yield while taking a "time-out" any time you sense a down-draft in crypto-space.  With BitAssets you can turn your exposure to Bitcoin's price on and off with one click... for less than a penny.

We are also working on a Bitcoin wallet using ShapeShift technology that gives Bitcoin access to these features for free.

Stay agile with respect to volatility and still spend bitcoins instantly from your phone any time you need to buy something.

This is the headline that's all over BitSharesTalk.org today:  "Receive and send bitcoin. Hedge Bitcoin price without counter party risk.  Bitcoin's killer app is here."

Bitcoin volatility solved.  Long live Bitcoin!

Aside from that salute to Bitcoin, we are positioning BitShares as a decentralized exchange where you don't have counterparty risk while you are on that exchange.  BitShares is an unmanned company on a blockchain that produces smart currency derivatives.  Yes it trades like a coin, but that's not its purpose.

Second generation block chains in general are focused on a multitude of different business models that have little to do with being a currency.  

Bitcoin can remain the classic digital gold standard.  Now it has complementary financial services on the transparent block chain.  What's not to like?

 

[StanLarimer]

There a nice article about all this over on reddit

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2uc3en/the_official_bitshares_client_will_be_able_to/

Here's an excerpt:

I've heard from a bitshares core dev that the shapeshift API will be integrated directly in the official bitshares full node possibly as early as next week, and will also be included in the light wallet (still in beta). This is huge for both bitcoin and bitshares!

This means that you can now use BitShares as a decentralized hedged bitcoin wallet. You can receive bitcoins from an exchange or from your friends, and hold it in bitUSD, and then send it out again to a bitpay integrated merchant, or lighthouse, or a bitcoin debit card or wherever else you want. All done exactly the same way as you send bitcoins normally using normal bitcoin addresses, except that while you hold the bitcoins they are hedged against volatility so if you send in 100 USD worth of bitcoin you will be able to send out 100 USD worth of bitcoin as well at any point in the future. All this is done without counterparty risk, you hold your own private keys at all times, and you need zero AML, zero anti-terrorism anal probes, and there's no way your money can be seized or frozen - just like bitcoin was always meant to be.

It's this kind of feature that is going to make bitcoin go mainstream. If anyone can hold and use bitcoins without having to worry about volatility we will begin to see an increasing amount of people shifting their money into crypto. As bitcoin is the onramp and offramp for all cryptocurrency, and is the payment rails on which cryptocurrency will be spent, the more money that goes into crypto as a whole the more bitcoin benefits. Bitcoin is already the most convenient way to spend your money in the whole world, with the addition of decentralized volatility hedging by consumers there's no reason why all commerce shouldn't go through the bitcoin network. BitUSD itself will never be a threat to bitcoin as a payments system. No merchant is ever going to accept BitUSD since it's so much easier to accept bitcoin since it has all the infrastructure and enables you to accept bitUSD as well, so bitcoin and bitUSD will never have to compete, but can instead grow side by side.

[StanLarimer]

From that same Reddit thread, Adam Findle makes a key point:

This makes bitcoin more valuable. It means you can buy bitcoin and then never need to touch fiat again. It's like making fiat exchanges more secure by turning their exchangeUSD/exchangeCNY/exchangeGOLD etc a cryptocurrency secured by a blockchain. Here, bitshares is the exchange. By pairing up with an altcoin bitcoin can stay decentralised with no need for any centralised locking services.

I know Bitcoiners tend to view altcoins as parasites.  BitShares offers a symbiotic relationship!