Pope Francis: parents can smack their children for bad behaviour

[Lethn]

I think that some of our problems in schools are due to school personnel not being allowed to use corporal punishment anymore.

These kids know that it’s against the law for anyone to physically touch them. Which probably leads these kids to think that they can get away with more and more, without consequences.

It’s getting to the point where we won’t be able to physically discipline our own kids.

Good point. I remember when I was a kid teachers had the right to for example remove you from the classroom and take you to the detention by force. Later on they were not allowed to touch a kid if he's resisting, which just caused more problems.

I remember being kicked out of the room because I talked with my mates interrupting the teacher. Nowadays its probably hell being a teacher, kids have laptops and are playing games all the time lol.

Yes how dare those fiends find more interesting things on the internet than listening to a boring teacher lecture them without knowing what the fuck their talking about and that their claims can be refuted with a five second google search!

[ajareselde]

Giving punishment for bad behaviour is called parenting.
I've seen enough of kids that act insane infront of their parents, but they still do nothing about it xcept to tell them its wrong.
I'm a parent of two, and trust me when i say; the toughest thing i have to do is to send them to a corner or smack them on their butts, but it needs to be done.
Its easy to judge when ure just observer, but the last thing i want is for my kids is for them to be a**holes when they grow up.

[Lethn]

Plenty of people who claim to be spanked and are fine prove themselves to act like total douchebags so as far as I'm concerned the experiment has failed, as usual with most things bad, people are just in denial.

[grendel25]

You know, now that I think about it more... maybe the church should change their stance about behavior that has proven to be abusive and repeatedly leads to bad futures.  There are just too many examples of abused children that end up being murderers or abusive in other ways.

[sickhouse]

Plenty of people who claim to be spanked and are fine prove themselves to act like total douchebags so as far as I'm concerned the experiment has failed, as usual with most things bad, people are just in denial.

How about a soft slap rarely? I got slapped softly when I behaved bad (maybe 3-4 times untill I was 5 years old) and I think it was justified. But then again there are always the morons who take it way way too far. The chock from getting hit was enough to make me stfu, and I deserved it those times.

[ajareselde]

You know, now that I think about it more... maybe the church should change their stance about behavior that has proven to be abusive and repeatedly leads to bad futures.  There are just too many examples of abused children that end up being murderers or abusive in other ways.

Wait a second here, are we talking about some random "smacks" when kids are bad, or are we talking about abuse?
Noone ever said that its ok to abuse, nor is church endorsing such a behaviour.
You got your balls mixed up mister, or do u consider every smack to be abuse?!

[grendel25]

Giving punishment for bad behaviour is called parenting.
I've seen enough of kids that act insane infront of their parents, but they still do nothing about it xcept to tell them its wrong.
I'm a parent of two, and trust me when i say; the toughest thing i have to do is to send them to a corner or smack them on their butts, but it needs to be done.
Its easy to judge when ure just observer, but the last thing i want is for my kids is for them to be a**holes when they grow up.

I'd never assume to tell anyone how to parent.  Go ahead and beat your kids but pay attention to the world around you and self-monitor.  I've seen many different approaches ranging from spankings to nothing at all and those kids are completely rebellious and do whatever they want.  Believe me, when I command obedience from kids they listen because they know there will be consequences that matter to them.

Corporal punishment teaches kids that a physical reaction is an appropriate response to events that are often not worthy of a physical punishment.  Punishment should educate children about how the world works.  Losing their iPad or losing some other liberty is way more effective than an emotional outburst of physical action.  

There are so many long-term empirical case studies that advocate against corporal punishment because of the myriad of god awful future outcomes.  But it is also proven in recent case studies that when people's values are proven wrong by empirical evidence then they cling to their own values even more.

[grendel25]

You know, now that I think about it more... maybe the church should change their stance about behavior that has proven to be abusive and repeatedly leads to bad futures.  There are just too many examples of abused children that end up being murderers or abusive in other ways.

Wait a second here, are we talking about some random "smacks" when kids are bad, or are we talking about abuse?
Noone ever said that its ok to abuse, nor is church endorsing such a behaviour.
You got your balls mixed up mister, or do u consider every smack to be abuse?!

Violence has a tendency to escalate.  That first little smack can seem so innocent until that kid gets older and turns it around.  I'm sure you do it just right and may not ever have that problem.  But for your one example of physical restraint there are literally hundreds that don't turn out so well.

[grendel25]

Plenty of people who claim to be spanked and are fine prove themselves to act like total douchebags so as far as I'm concerned the experiment has failed, as usual with most things bad, people are just in denial.

How about a soft slap rarely? I got slapped softly when I behaved bad (maybe 3-4 times untill I was 5 years old) and I think it was justified. But then again there are always the morons who take it way way too far. The chock from getting hit was enough to make me stfu, and I deserved it those times.

Yeah, there should be times when it's justified to punch someone for saying the wrong thing but in most situations today that escalation results in assault charges.

A slap rarely probably teaches people to be more careful.  I know I learned that way myself.  I also learned the other side that you can get in a lot of trouble for the slightest physical confrontation.

Ultimately, non-violence is always better.  Just stay away from idiots who say stupid things and if you can prove they did something provocative then you can actually press charges for that too.

But when it comes to kids and discipline, there are just so many non-violent approaches to discipline. Everyone just has to be careful and be sure they are talking to their kids about the consequences of their actions.  And not just consequences for the kids but consequences to others based on what the kid did.  That idiot who shot up the Batman movie in Aurora, Colorado, didn't just land himself in jail he damaged 100's if not thousands of lives: those he killed and their friends and families.

[Lethn]

You know, now that I think about it more... maybe the church should change their stance about behavior that has proven to be abusive and repeatedly leads to bad futures.  There are just too many examples of abused children that end up being murderers or abusive in other ways.

They haven't changed their stance on homosexuality for centuries despite it being blatantly obvious they're full of shit and where gay marriage has been introduced the sky hasn't fallen and people haven't turned to beastiality, hell even with taxes they act they have the same attitude, Finland is as far as I'm aware one of the only countries out there that taxes religious organisations and again, nothing disastrous has happened and the world hasn't fallen to pieces, in fact, people seem pretty happy over there.

Also, when are stupid people going to understand that I'm against all forms of physically unprovoked violence? Self-defence is one thing but you have to be a serious asshole to think it's 'okay' to go punching an asshole just because he said some mean things about your mother, granted, it's not like I wouldn't feel anything from it, I'm human too but it's a total joke when I hear people lecturing others about freedom of speech etc. and then suddenly changing their minds and deciding it's okay to get violent over a simple comment.

[grendel25]

You know, now that I think about it more... maybe the church should change their stance about behavior that has proven to be abusive and repeatedly leads to bad futures.  There are just too many examples of abused children that end up being murderers or abusive in other ways.

They haven't changed their stance on homosexuality for centuries despite it being blatantly obvious they're full of shit and where gay marriage has been introduced the sky hasn't fallen and people haven't turned to beastiality, hell even with taxes they act they have the same attitude, Finland is as far as I'm aware one of the only countries out there that taxes religious organisations and again, nothing disastrous has happened and the world hasn't fallen to pieces, in fact, people seem pretty happy over there.

Also, when are stupid people going to understand that I'm against all forms of physically unprovoked violence? Self-defence is one thing but you have to be a serious asshole to think it's 'okay' to go punching an asshole just because he said some mean things about your mother, granted, it's not like I wouldn't feel anything from it, I'm human too but it's a total joke when I hear people lecturing others about freedom of speech etc. and then suddenly changing their minds and deciding it's okay to get violent over a simple comment.

I think we agree on most of this.  I never asserted that you were violent.

[(oYo)]

I remember being kicked out of the room because I talked with my mates interrupting the teacher. Nowadays its probably hell being a teacher, kids have laptops and are playing games all the time lol.

Yes how dare those fiends find more interesting things on the internet than listening to a boring teacher lecture them without knowing what the fuck their talking about and that their claims can be refuted with a five second google search!

Lethn, while I too dislike the current educational system, I'm pretty sure most of these kids that disrupt classrooms are NOT googling relevant information, but are gaming or using social media instead, thereby preventing the other kids that actually NEED to memorize what's being taught if they ever want to graduate. Unfortunately, the current educational system is not a place of learning but of repeating. Therefore, as a freethinking kid that actually wants to learn, you'll need to save your googling time for after class. If you want to pass your class, you'll have to parrot whatever the teacher is saying. If you're actually actively doing something to change the system, playing games and using social media during class time not being any of those things, you're still going to have to do the parrot thing until you've succeeded.

You've made some other statements in this thread I'd like to address.

RE: Respect - While I do agree respect is a two way street, I disagree when you say respect needs to be earned. Do you go around disrespecting people as a default until they EARN your respect? That's just fucked up. All people should have your respect as the default and only if they lose it gain disrespect.

RE: Obedience - You seem to have a big problem with kids being obedient. Although kids should be taught to be skeptical, there's a time and place for everything. Good luck raising your own kids someday without obedience.

I'd like to take a moment to commend every parent that has never felt the need to spank their children, as well as the children who made it possible by choosing not to be little shits. Clearly they are all extremely intelligent and caring individuals. Definitely not the norm. It will certainly be a sign that we are living in a utopian society once everyone reaches such a level of maturity and enlightenment.

<edit> My sisters kids have never been spanked, yet are a delight because they are considerate.