about UTXOs with OP_RETURN

[onkkil]

There is something I don't understand about usage of OP_RETURN.
I've read that UTXOs with OP_RETURN cannot be spent.
However it is also said that those outputs can be used to indicate an ownership or control of a property.
What if someone wants to transfer this kind of property to another peer while these outputs can not be spent.
Thanks

[HeadsOrTails]

There is something I don't understand about usage of OP_RETURN.
I've read that UTXOs with OP_RETURN cannot be spent.

That's a misnomer. Read below.

However it is also said that those outputs can be used to indicate an ownership or control of a property.
What if someone wants to transfer this kind of property to another peer while these outputs can not be spent.
Thanks

You're paying the miner to accept the OP_RETURN data into a block. The fact that it's OP_RETURN means it's no longer a UTXO.
The indication of ownership of property is simply this: information is preserved in the blockchain and is proved to be true by POW. What that info is, how it's read, what it means: none of that is determined by the blockchain.

[onkkil]

Does that mean: these type of outputs cannot be transferred and they will be stuck in a address where they are generated?

[instagibbs]

Using OP_RETURN for embedding data for a colored coin like system is called "embedded consensus systems". The data could just as well be junk.

You don't get to use miners to enforce validity of these "transactions", so you have to verify it yourself as a user of the system. 

[onkkil]

Okay.
Is there any miner who accept to validate OP_RETURN data in return for their own interest for valitating those outputs

[DeathAndTaxes]

Okay.
Is there any miner who accept to validate OP_RETURN data in return for their own interest for valitating those outputs

No.  To the Bitcoin network anything in the OP_RETURN output has no meaning or significance.  It is third party systems which use OP_RETURN for some specific meaning.  Without that third party the message means nothing.

For example imagine an OP_RETURN message which says "I D&T transfer 250 bingbings to onkkill (signature)".  There is no such concept of a bingbings in the Bitcoin network.  In fact the entire OP_RETURN is just treated as "junk".  However imagine there was a bingbings network and it could verify that I have 250 bingbings eligible for transfer and also to transfer and that the message is authentic (created by me).  The bitcoin network (nodes and miners) have no idea what that means, they don't care.  It is only in this hypothetical bingbings network (which is piggybacking on Bitcoin) that the message has any meaning or relevance.  Under this scenario now in the future YOU could create a new OP_RETURN transfering some number of bingbings to someone else.  Once again the bitcoin network won't be validating it, hell it won't even be reading it.  OP_RETURN is just a way for your to piggyback your third party message onto the Bitcoin network.

Why would bingbings piggyback on Bitcoin instead of using their own network?  Bitcoin is incredibly secure, many magnitudes more secure than a bingbings network could ever hope to be.  What if I didn't have any bingbings and created the message anyways would the OP_RETURN output be valid? Of course it was.  Any data in an OP_RETURN output (subject to size and number limitations) is valid.  The Bitcoin network has no idea what the actual message is, doesn't care, and has no way or reason to try and validate it.  So it would eventually be included in a block.  However clients on the bingbings network parse the Bitcoin blockchain and would see by OP_RETURN message but they (BingBings nodes) would discard it as invalid because it is not valid for THEIR network.

[tzpardi]

Hopefully third party systems will be start utilizing the power of OP_RETURN.

[samson]

Hopefully third party systems will be start utilizing the power of OP_RETURN.

It's kind of limited considering only 40 bytes are allowed

[doof]

Hopefully third party systems will be start utilizing the power of OP_RETURN.

It's kind of limited considering only 40 bytes are allowed

yes and no.  Any document can be hashed to 32bytes, then referenced on a side chain, maidsafe / storj repository ect.

[tzpardi]

Hopefully third party systems will be start utilizing the power of OP_RETURN.

It's kind of limited considering only 40 bytes are allowed

yes and no.  Any document can be hashed to 32bytes, then referenced on a side chain, maidsafe / storj repository ect.

That's a really great option, but terms of the size increase of BTC blockchain how practical and doable is that for example law and accountancy firms start to include their hashed contracts in the BTC blockchain? Or would be the BTC blockchain just fine with the additional few million OP_RETURN transactions that include the hash of the documents?

[samson]

Hopefully third party systems will be start utilizing the power of OP_RETURN.

It's kind of limited considering only 40 bytes are allowed

yes and no.  Any document can be hashed to 32bytes, then referenced on a side chain, maidsafe / storj repository ect.

I'll give that a test over the weekend, any idea where I can the sidechain clients from ?

[blossbloss]

Pseudo newb here.  What is the actual process of creating an OP_RETURN message?  Can I do it with Armory?  If not, how then?
Finally, is there a way in Blockchain.info to see an OP_RETURN message?  Again, if not, then how?
Thanks!

[amaclin]

Pseudo newb here.  What is the actual process of creating an OP_RETURN message?  Can I do it with Armory?  If not, how then?

If you can not do it yourself - you do not need it.
Please, do not waste blockchain space.

Finally, is there a way in Blockchain.info to see an OP_RETURN message?  Again, if not, then how?

Of course.
Let us see for example https://blockchain.info/tx/da6fcac032a07c6cdd01397948cc05d37c84ee79a42d78df58b29bb389eafff4?show_adv=true
In the bottom of this page
OP_RETURN 5354414d5044232357a5f6876cea640c14ab43af02f961b1cf8d0817a8885a76f222eeebc74791a 2
Are you able to read and understand data encoded in hex? No?

[samson]

Pseudo newb here.  What is the actual process of creating an OP_RETURN message?  Can I do it with Armory?  If not, how then?

If you can not do it yourself - you do not need it.
Please, do not waste blockchain space.

Finally, is there a way in Blockchain.info to see an OP_RETURN message?  Again, if not, then how?

Of course.
Let us see for example https://blockchain.info/tx/da6fcac032a07c6cdd01397948cc05d37c84ee79a42d78df58b29bb389eafff4?show_adv=true
In the bottom of this page
OP_RETURN 5354414d5044232357a5f6876cea640c14ab43af02f961b1cf8d0817a8885a76f222eeebc74791a 2
Are you able to read and understand data encoded in hex? No?

How very ignorant. If you don't know what it is and want to learn then you have to start somewhere.

We all knew nothing at one point in time...

[blossbloss]

Pseudo newb here.  What is the actual process of creating an OP_RETURN message?  Can I do it with Armory?  If not, how then?

If you can not do it yourself - you do not need it.
Please, do not waste blockchain space.

Finally, is there a way in Blockchain.info to see an OP_RETURN message?  Again, if not, then how?

Of course.
Let us see for example https://blockchain.info/tx/da6fcac032a07c6cdd01397948cc05d37c84ee79a42d78df58b29bb389eafff4?show_adv=true
In the bottom of this page
OP_RETURN 5354414d5044232357a5f6876cea640c14ab43af02f961b1cf8d0817a8885a76f222eeebc74791a 2
Are you able to read and understand data encoded in hex? No?

How very ignorant. If you don't know what it is and want to learn then you have to start somewhere.

We all knew nothing at one point in time...

Thank you.  I'm still interested in learning how to create an OP_RETURN message (with Armory or other available tools).