remotemass (OP)
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March 13, 2015, 11:34:40 AM |
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I show how games like 'Euromillions' could use the bitcoin hash of a given block to draw the numbers. In the tweet account https://twitter.com/totolusoI post the 'euromillion' numbers using the hash of the latest block as a source for randomness.  |
{ Imagine a sequence of bits generated from the first decimal place of the square roots of whole integers that are irrational numbers. If the decimal falls between 0 and 5, it's considered bit 0, and if it falls between 5 and 10, it's considered bit 1. This sequence from a simple integer count of contiguous irrationals and their logical decimal expansion of the first decimal place is called the 'main irrational stream.' Our goal is to design a physical and optical computing system system that can detect when this stream starts matching a specific pattern of a given size of bits. bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=166760.0 } Satoshi did use a friend class in C++ and put a comment on the code saying: "This is why people hate C++".
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Jesu
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March 13, 2015, 11:38:06 AM |
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Well I don't think they will be using this method to draw the numbers but maybe somebody could set up an official bitcoin blockchain lottery. That would be pretty cool.
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remotemass (OP)
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March 13, 2015, 11:41:11 AM |
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What do you mean by official? Do you mean by the Bitcoin Foundation?
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{ Imagine a sequence of bits generated from the first decimal place of the square roots of whole integers that are irrational numbers. If the decimal falls between 0 and 5, it's considered bit 0, and if it falls between 5 and 10, it's considered bit 1. This sequence from a simple integer count of contiguous irrationals and their logical decimal expansion of the first decimal place is called the 'main irrational stream.' Our goal is to design a physical and optical computing system system that can detect when this stream starts matching a specific pattern of a given size of bits. bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=166760.0 } Satoshi did use a friend class in C++ and put a comment on the code saying: "This is why people hate C++".
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bri912678
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March 13, 2015, 11:54:48 AM |
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That's a very clever way of picking the numbers. Is there no way to cheat that system? I can't think of any way anyone could cheat it. You would have to force a block's hash to be something predictable.
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remotemass (OP)
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March 13, 2015, 11:59:03 AM |
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Impossible to cheat. No one can guess what will be the hash of a future block.
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{ Imagine a sequence of bits generated from the first decimal place of the square roots of whole integers that are irrational numbers. If the decimal falls between 0 and 5, it's considered bit 0, and if it falls between 5 and 10, it's considered bit 1. This sequence from a simple integer count of contiguous irrationals and their logical decimal expansion of the first decimal place is called the 'main irrational stream.' Our goal is to design a physical and optical computing system system that can detect when this stream starts matching a specific pattern of a given size of bits. bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=166760.0 } Satoshi did use a friend class in C++ and put a comment on the code saying: "This is why people hate C++".
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odolvlobo
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March 13, 2015, 04:09:09 PM
Last edit: March 13, 2015, 04:22:44 PM by odolvlobo |
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Impossible to cheat. No one can guess what will be the hash of a future block.
...except the miner that mines the block. That person is the first to know. The solution would be to halt bets before the previous block. There is an additional complication of which block is the "latest block" in the case of a branch in the chain. Miners could collude to affect the outcome. |
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BillyBobZorton
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March 13, 2015, 04:35:57 PM |
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Well I don't think they will be using this method to draw the numbers but maybe somebody could set up an official bitcoin blockchain lottery. That would be pretty cool.
Yeah this sounds great, but since nothing is centralized in Bitcoin it couldn't be "official". There could be several sites doing it. |
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redsn0w
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March 13, 2015, 04:41:07 PM |
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Well I don't think they will be using this method to draw the numbers but maybe somebody could set up an official bitcoin blockchain lottery. That would be pretty cool.
Yeah this sounds great, but since nothing is centralized in Bitcoin it couldn't be " official". There could be several sites doing it. I think you wanted to say "neutral" not official. No one can manipulate the blockchain ( as odolvlobo said "only the first miner that has find the block for first") . The other option would be to have the +51% of the hash power but I think no one will do this type of attak only for win a round in a lottery based on the bitcoin blockchain. |
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odolvlobo
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March 13, 2015, 04:50:55 PM |
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I think you wanted to say "neutral" not official. No one can manipulate the blockchain ( as odolvlobo said "only the first miner that has find the block for first") . The other option would be to have the +51% of the hash power but I think no one will do this type of attak only for win a round in a lottery based on the bitcoin blockchain.
The blockchain can be manipulated in this case. You don't need 51% because you don't need to control the outcome, you just want to affect it. If the lottery is big enough, then even a small advantage could be very profitable. |
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Lorenzo
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March 13, 2015, 05:41:26 PM
Last edit: March 13, 2015, 05:52:08 PM by Lorenzo |
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I believe there are already many lotteries in the Bitcoin world that use this method.
Also, miners have the ability to discard blocks that they find so it does open up the possibility that miners could discard blocks with "losing" block hashes. For example, if you spent 100 BTC on a 50 percent chance to make 200 BTC and you mined a block that would make you lose your bet, it would make sense to discard that block.
Mining the block: Lose 100 BTC to gain 25 BTC
Not mining the block: 50 percent chance of gaining 200 BTC
I know the OP is talking about non-BTC lotteries but it's the same idea.
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remotemass (OP)
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March 13, 2015, 09:50:12 PM |
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In the case of 'Euromillions' bets acceptance is closed on the day before the draw so it would be fine using this method.
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{ Imagine a sequence of bits generated from the first decimal place of the square roots of whole integers that are irrational numbers. If the decimal falls between 0 and 5, it's considered bit 0, and if it falls between 5 and 10, it's considered bit 1. This sequence from a simple integer count of contiguous irrationals and their logical decimal expansion of the first decimal place is called the 'main irrational stream.' Our goal is to design a physical and optical computing system system that can detect when this stream starts matching a specific pattern of a given size of bits. bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=166760.0 } Satoshi did use a friend class in C++ and put a comment on the code saying: "This is why people hate C++".
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