21dotco: A bitcoin miner in every device and in every hand

[inBitweTrust]

In other words, their business model depends on deception and ignorance.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."


BTW, I like the concept, but it has to make economic sense in order to succeed.

We should probably wait to review the specs and GH/Watts before judging them. It may be beneficial to the consumer , them and the bitcoin marketplace.

My primary concern deals with centralization of mining and if they will allow the end user to select their own pool for the 25% in hashing that is shared with the user. Hopefully they realize we will not tolerate one company or pool to control 51% or more of the hashrate . If they cared about the ecosystem they would allow mining to be done on a p2p pool by default not controlled by any one entity.

I am hopeful they will make the right decision as several of the large investors in 21 Inc are both libertarians and heavily invested in bitcoin where they are concerned for the longterm viability.

Now this is a subject that we should focus on and be prepared for. If they go live with ASICs in routers we will see a major increase in hashrate. How do we handle that?

There is no way for traditional miners to compete with their margins. They should immediately start negotiating with other companies like IBM, InTEL, google if they wish to survive.

Also how do we handle the fact that 21inc will have most of the freshly generated coins? I'm assuming that consumers will NOT hold their satoshis directly. Their share will go to 21inc and they will have some sort of credit. Having the consumers directly hold the satoshis from the stars makes it very complicated and bad things will definately happen.

If Qualcomm starts giving out free routers and extremely cheap androids than other companies like Samsung and Apple will have to copy their business model. It would be likely to expect that multiple of these companies to compete for a share of these bitcoins. As long as the the ASICs are being produced by several competing companies or partnerships not in collusion I am Ok with them fighting over for a share of them remaining 32% of bitcoins as those profits will go towards high tech jobs to roll out new products and services for our ecosystem.

[BitDreams]

Why did this instantly go to money when 'a satoshi' could be so much more? A deed, a title, a marriage certificate... it could be a light switch turned on and off, a snapshot from a security camera, transactions worth securing for the next fifty years more. Any and every packet is a potential blockchain transaction. Not all on the bitcoin blockchain, but somehow supported by it, maybe through something like ethereum. - basically, i see 21.io coming out with their own coin or allowing customers to chose which blockchain they support by programming the device. i'm just speculating.

[inBitweTrust]

Why did this instantly go to money when 'a satoshi' could be so much more? A deed, a title, a marriage certificate... it could be a light switch turned on and off, a snapshot from a security camera, transactions worth securing for the next fifty years more. Any and every packet is a potential blockchain transaction. Not all on the bitcoin blockchain, but somehow supported by it, maybe through something like ethereum. - basically, i see 21.io coming out with their own coin or allowing customers to chose which blockchain they support by programming the device. i'm just speculating.

Well, a satoshi is either a currency or asset to pay for those contracts or smart properties. It is a unit of account based upon its design.

Vitalik plans on switching ethereum off of PoW fairly quickly to some yet to be decided version of TaPoS so I doubt it will be ethereum. Being that many of those investors are highly invested in bitcoin alone I highly doubt they will be messing with any other alt as well.  

[monsanto]

In other words, their business model depends on deception and ignorance.

Then they should fit right into the bitcoin ecosystem 

[odolvlobo]

Why did this instantly go to money when 'a satoshi' could be so much more? ...

There are two ways to obtain satoshis: you can buy 1 million satoshis for about $2.50, or you can mine them for about $10 in electricity with a 21dotco device. Your choice.

[vanderghast]

https://i.imgur.com/mp6ZIml.png

Taken from http://imgur.com/a/q9cbL

Hey that's cool. How did you get your hands on their investor preso? I heard there's a full 84 pages to it, anyone seen the rest of it?

[NattyLiteCoin]

There are two ways to obtain satoshis: you can buy 1 million satoshis for about $2.50, or you can mine them for about $10 in electricity with a 21dotco device. Your choice.

May be I'm just a nut job, but you make me want to break something beautiful. The point of this deployment is not to fuckin' generate a bitcoin from mining from these appliances. It's to bolster the network on a scale that's unimaginable. The point is that it will provide the most robust computational infrastructure on the planet. The value of that is immeasurable. So buy some fuckin' bitcoin, feel blessed that you can contribute to the network by doing the things you normally do, and forget about the stupid electricity costs.

It's a paradigm shift.

 

[odolvlobo]

There are two ways to obtain satoshis: you can buy 1 million satoshis for about $2.50, or you can mine them for about $10 in electricity with a 21dotco device. Your choice.

May be I'm just a nut job, but you make me want to break something beautiful. The point of this deployment is not to fuckin' generate a bitcoin from mining from these appliances. It's to bolster the network on a scale that's unimaginable. The point is that it will provide the most robust computational infrastructure on the planet.

Ask the investors what the point of this venture is. They will say it is a business, and the point is to make money. The strategy is to get people like you to donate money to the "cause", and they get to keep 75%.  If their purpose were really to bolster the network, they could have taken the $116 million, bought 250,000 AntMiners, and then given them away.

Furthermore, they aren't really going to "bolster the network". Their plan is to build a mining pool that could surpass 51%, and unlike other pools, you can't switch to another pool if you don't like their policies. In other words, their goal is to centralize Bitcoin mining, and put themselves at the center.


Just to be clear. I am all for bolstering the network and providing a robust computational infrastructure, but it has to make economic sense or it will fail.

[Kprawn]

So we are going to have a lot more people, who would be bringing their toasters to work.  ... I can already see a "Bitcoin enabled" device in every office.

It will be a novelty item for Nerds to brag about. {My toaster makes me money... what about you?}

I just cannot see, how they would be able to offset the increased cost of the device and the extra electricity it will use, to reach a ROI. {The goal seems to be Bitcoin awareness and securing the network}

Let's see how this pan out....     

[Amph]

So we are going to have a lot more people, who would be bringing their toasters to work.  ... I can already see a "Bitcoin enabled" device in every office.

It will be a novelty item for Nerds to brag about. {My toaster makes me money... what about you?}

I just cannot see, how they would be able to offset the increased cost of the device and the extra electricity it will use, to reach a ROI. {The goal seems to be Bitcoin awareness and securing the network}

Let's see how this pan out....     

i don't think this project will be applyed to a non internet device, i mena a toaster does not have any possible connection, how you cna mine with it?

this whole thing is more concurrently with devices that can be connected to internet

[Mayer Amschel]

Blindness, blindness everywhere.

Electricity costs? its a MOBILE device.

Battery power? If you guys havnt read about the instant recharge power device then lol.

So Naive.

- Mayer Amschel

[SebastianJu]

I cant imagine that working. Those asics need space in the hardware and surrounding hardware to make it work. So the cost will be higher than the simple asic chip.

And as far as the difficulty goes... up to which magnitude has these chips to be better in order to be worth it for more than 2 or 3 months? Are all the other miner creators stupid and 21 found the holy grail of asic mining?

Maybe they plan to have VERY low production cost by a huge amount of asics being needed. But even that... its hard to believe.

Then I realized that the target market is people who don't know anything about bitcoin.  All they will see is "free stuff for just using my X" and so it may work out.  I do think it may help adoption and that is a good thing.

I think youre right. But because of that reason it will be a very bad thing. Because at one point people will realize that they got scammed out of their power cost so that others could earn money. If that will be marketed silently then this will be a problem at some point.

Blindness, blindness everywhere.

Electricity costs? its a MOBILE device.

Battery power? If you guys havnt read about the instant recharge power device then lol.

So Naive.

- Mayer Amschel

So your power, coming out of wall, is free for you or what do you want to say? Does someone other pay it for you? If so, yes, then you could scam this person out of their energy.

[becker]

When this stuff comes out. I'll just start "accidently" forgetting my stuff at high traffic locations. HEHE.

Poor people will be all happy they found a "free" usb charger, but little will they know I already put my payment address in it. Muhahahahhahahahahhah.

[NattyLiteCoin]

There are two ways to obtain satoshis: you can buy 1 million satoshis for about $2.50, or you can mine them for about $10 in electricity with a 21dotco device. Your choice.

May be I'm just a nut job, but you make me want to break something beautiful. The point of this deployment is not to fuckin' generate a bitcoin from mining from these appliances. It's to bolster the network on a scale that's unimaginable. The point is that it will provide the most robust computational infrastructure on the planet.

Ask the investors what the point of this venture is. They will say it is a business, and the point is to make money. The strategy is to get people like you to donate money to the "cause", and they get to keep 75%.  If their purpose were really to bolster the network, they could have taken the $116 million, bought 250,000 AntMiners, and then given them away.

Furthermore, they aren't really going to "bolster the network". Their plan is to build a mining pool that could surpass 51%, and unlike other pools, you can't switch to another pool if you don't like their policies. In other words, their goal is to centralize Bitcoin mining, and put themselves at the center.


Just to be clear. I am all for bolstering the network and providing a robust computational infrastructure, but it has to make economic sense or it will fail.

OK. I was misinformed and apologies for being crass. If the consumer doesn't have the autonomy to point their devices (even in the fruitless case of solo mining) to a place of their choosing or creation, I need to re-evaluate this idea.

[Ruthful]

It will be a novelty item for Nerds to brag about. {My toaster makes me money... what about you?}

  

That is until they compare electricity bill. 

[sirnoah]

this is awesome!!!

i want my fridge to mine... toaster ...light bulbs...LOL hahahahahah

[gentlemand]

Although the devices will be spread far and wide, all of them will be pointed to 21's pool.

If it really goes enormous and they make themselves not too far off the google of BTC, I wonder what happens if they decide they don't like the halving schedule so much...

At that point other Bitcoin users and miners might be in a significant minority. 21's Bitcoin might waltz off into the sunset while everyone else chugs down their modest little path.

All miners at present are 'conscious' and can point them wherever they like. 21 locks a huge amount of machinery in and most people aren't going to know or care what it's actually up to.