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Author Topic: Bitcoin double scarcity - the end game for the strong hands  (Read 426 times)
hv_ (OP)
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March 07, 2017, 02:25:17 PM
 #1

Given the 21Mio are fix (first scarcity)

And the TX number limit / block size stays fix ( 1MB = second scarcity)

All bitcoins on addresses where bitcoin amount <= TX fee stuck because fees are too high
I ve seen somewhere that this might be 50% already?


This means that more or less only big junks of bitcoin are worth moving to be sold ( to exchanges ), initial from miners but also from other sellers.

Or have just stay at (save) exchanges with high security  (NY BitLicence!)  = high cost

But if you want to really own them and save them you should move to cold wallets (costs).

-> Buying / securing bitcoins will be harder / more expensive in the future - so price must go up and weak hands or small amount holders will be fully kicked out of this market!

-> Transfer of bitcoins  may be done finally from these strong hands holders (bank + IOU - style / LN style) only!

To avoid this kind of end game, only REAL on chain scaling is needed.

Any ideas?

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BillyBobZorton
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March 07, 2017, 02:40:48 PM
 #2

Given the 21Mio are fix (first scarcity)

And the TX number limit / block size stays fix ( 1MB = second scarcity)

All bitcoins on addresses where bitcoin amount <= TX fee stuck because fees are too high
I ve seen somewhere that this might be 50% already?


This means that more or less only big junks of bitcoin are worth moving to be sold ( to exchanges ), initial from miners but also from other sellers.

Or have just stay at (save) exchanges with high security  (NY BitLicence!)  = high cost

But if you want to really own them and save them you should move to cold wallets (costs).

-> Buying / securing bitcoins will be harder / more expensive in the future - so price must go up and weak hands or small amount holders will be fully kicked out of this market!

-> Transfer of bitcoins  may be done finally from these strong hands holders (bank + IOU - style / LN style) only!

To avoid this kind of end game, only REAL on chain scaling is needed.

Any ideas?



We don't know how many of those addresses are all that a wallet contains.

What I mean is, I've got a bunch of addresses that have tiny amounts of bitcoin, usually from change after making a transaction.

Roger Ver could point at them saying how this is a disaster, but I can easily send them together with other addresses with coin control.

Of course if some noobs got small amounts thanks to faucets etc, I don't see how they are going to move those amounts since the fees are higher than what they have.

I honestly don't see a solution that does not involve LN. No amount of onchain scaling will ever amount to making micro transactions viable at any non-marginal levels of usage.
AngryDwarf
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March 07, 2017, 02:48:29 PM
 #3

Wouldn't these small amounts still need to be moved from native keys to segwit keys on the main blockchain anyway?

= onchain scaling solution needed.

Scaling and transaction rate: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=532.msg6306#msg6306
Do not allow demand to exceed capacity. Do not allow mempools to forget transactions. Relay all transactions. Eventually confirm all transactions.
hv_ (OP)
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March 07, 2017, 03:27:39 PM
 #4

Given the 21Mio are fix (first scarcity)

And the TX number limit / block size stays fix ( 1MB = second scarcity)

All bitcoins on addresses where bitcoin amount <= TX fee stuck because fees are too high
I ve seen somewhere that this might be 50% already?


This means that more or less only big junks of bitcoin are worth moving to be sold ( to exchanges ), initial from miners but also from other sellers.

Or have just stay at (save) exchanges with high security  (NY BitLicence!)  = high cost

But if you want to really own them and save them you should move to cold wallets (costs).

-> Buying / securing bitcoins will be harder / more expensive in the future - so price must go up and weak hands or small amount holders will be fully kicked out of this market!

-> Transfer of bitcoins  may be done finally from these strong hands holders (bank + IOU - style / LN style) only!

To avoid this kind of end game, only REAL on chain scaling is needed.

Any ideas?



We don't know how many of those addresses are all that a wallet contains.

What I mean is, I've got a bunch of addresses that have tiny amounts of bitcoin, usually from change after making a transaction.

Roger Ver could point at them saying how this is a disaster, but I can easily send them together with other addresses with coin control.

Of course if some noobs got small amounts thanks to faucets etc, I don't see how they are going to move those amounts since the fees are higher than what they have.

I honestly don't see a solution that does not involve LN. No amount of onchain scaling will ever amount to making micro transactions viable at any non-marginal levels of usage.

For those tiny micro amounts I also hope that some 2nd layer could solve or some aggregation could be provided. But I've not seen any proper analysis about the fractioning in this matter and if it could help at all, since you need same 'channels' for netting and if you have only a sinlge fraction - you can forget your amount - for ever ?

How much BTC does this reduce the 21 Mio ? - > It is clearly new scarcity dimension next to loosing your private key...

Carpe diem  -  understand the White Paper and mine honest.
Fix real world issues: Check out b-vote.com
The simple way is the genius way - Satoshi's Rules: humana veris _
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