Causes of Mass shootings, suicides + - Many of them are on psychotropic drugs

[Spendulus]

When you're dependent on drugs or staying away from allergens their whole life, if they are somehow without the drugs or get in contact with allergens they may have adverse reactions because their bodies naturally aren't used to them. People are taking away from their natural immune systems. They served people well for years and years and years, but people just want to trust drugs more.  

i think its more an issue of people, as in the general population, being either too ignorant or simply uneducated enough to think for themselves and end up trusting the doctors that prescribe them the drugs, not the drugs themselves. think about it, would you trust your dealer that this new kush is dank as fuck if hes been your supplier for years now? hell I would. analogy aside, there is also the placebo effect, which is far stronger than people give it credit for, and i think it plays a big role in just how effective people perceive these drugs to be when given to them by their trusty doctors in white coats. however, they fail to realize that their doctors just give them drugs to treat the symptoms for several reasons; 1, its easier than treating the cause, and 2, it gets them paid.

I get that. I do think most people these days think anything a doctor prescribes is good for you. The media sure like to make vaccines out to be necessary and anyone who doesn't want one is an idiot or worse the parents are neglecting their children. They totally ignore that vaccines have side effects too and people do get sick after having them.

I'm sure the placebo effect helps them keep the delusion also.  

Not very many people understand the effects of psychotropic drugs on crazy people.  There are REASONS why mental hospitals were before the age of drugs, called "Lunatic asylums."  

Now, that is a very general comment.

Here and now the concern isn't over the highly beneficial aspects of psychotropic drugs used on crazy people in asylums, but the modern concepts that with such drugs, a fair segment of such people can be released into society.
As more and more drugs have been developed, the concept goes farther.  It goes into a realm where people with much less severe mental illnesses - people well into the normal range, as opposed to neurotic, depressed, psychotic, schizophrenic categories - are prescribed psychotropic drugs.

Now we find some unknown fraction of these treated categories seem to be subject to violent episodes.

It isn't known if these are the exact same people who, before the age of such drugs, were labeled "lunatics" or whether it is a new mix of people from various styles of illness.  In other words, are the episodes of violence a direct side effect of such drugs, or a reversion to the basic nature of the the deranged individual, when untreated, or some combination of such causes?

Is there work being done to figure this out?

Well, looking at autism in particular....

Naw, let's not, because it has zero relation to anything I said.  

You can ignore the whole post as much as you want to, but I think it's highly related. There are obvious issues dealing with the brain and how it functions in people that are being changed by our environment.

From the National Institute for Mental Health

"Scientists don't know the exact causes of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), but research suggests that both genes and environment play important roles.
...
Environmental factors

In medicine, "environment" refers to anything outside of the body....

Well, you've gone off the deep end with this rubber band logic.

[subSTRATA]

When you're dependent on drugs or staying away from allergens their whole life, if they are somehow without the drugs or get in contact with allergens they may have adverse reactions because their bodies naturally aren't used to them. People are taking away from their natural immune systems. They served people well for years and years and years, but people just want to trust drugs more.  

i think its more an issue of people, as in the general population, being either too ignorant or simply uneducated enough to think for themselves and end up trusting the doctors that prescribe them the drugs, not the drugs themselves. think about it, would you trust your dealer that this new kush is dank as fuck if hes been your supplier for years now? hell I would. analogy aside, there is also the placebo effect, which is far stronger than people give it credit for, and i think it plays a big role in just how effective people perceive these drugs to be when given to them by their trusty doctors in white coats. however, they fail to realize that their doctors just give them drugs to treat the symptoms for several reasons; 1, its easier than treating the cause, and 2, it gets them paid.

I get that. I do think most people these days think anything a doctor prescribes is good for you. The media sure like to make vaccines out to be necessary and anyone who doesn't want one is an idiot or worse the parents are neglecting their children. They totally ignore that vaccines have side effects too and people do get sick after having them.

I'm sure the placebo effect helps them keep the delusion also.  

Not very many people understand the effects of psychotropic drugs on crazy people.  There are REASONS why mental hospitals were before the age of drugs, called "Lunatic asylums."  

Now, that is a very general comment.

Here and now the concern isn't over the highly beneficial aspects of psychotropic drugs used on crazy people in asylums, but the modern concepts that with such drugs, a fair segment of such people can be released into society.
As more and more drugs have been developed, the concept goes farther.  It goes into a realm where people with much less severe mental illnesses - people well into the normal range, as opposed to neurotic, depressed, psychotic, schizophrenic categories - are prescribed psychotropic drugs.

Now we find some unknown fraction of these treated categories seem to be subject to violent episodes.

It isn't known if these are the exact same people who, before the age of such drugs, were labeled "lunatics" or whether it is a new mix of people from various styles of illness.  In other words, are the episodes of violence a direct side effect of such drugs, or a reversion to the basic nature of the the deranged individual, when untreated, or some combination of such causes?

Is there work being done to figure this out?

Well, looking at autism in particular....

Naw, let's not, because it has zero relation to anything I said.  

You can ignore the whole post as much as you want to, but I think it's highly related. There are obvious issues dealing with the brain and how it functions in people that are being changed by our environment.

From the National Institute for Mental Health

"Scientists don't know the exact causes of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), but research suggests that both genes and environment play important roles.
...
Environmental factors

In medicine, "environment" refers to anything outside of the body....

Well, you've gone off the deep end with this rubber band logic.

im going to agree.
as to answer your question from before, i think those rare, psychotic episodes exhibited by a small percentage of individuals on those drugs isnt really explainable easily. it could be a rare case side effect of the drug induced by a combination of many factors, or it could be that perhaps the individual stopped taking the medicine, assuming themselves cured, and had a harsh relapse. i think itd be safe to say these cases are rare enough to have them be the outlying extremes of side effects.

[Spendulus]

....im going to agree.
as to answer your question from before, i think those rare, psychotic episodes exhibited by a small percentage of individuals on those drugs isnt really explainable easily. it could be a rare case side effect of the drug induced by a combination of many factors, or it could be that perhaps the individual stopped taking the medicine, assuming themselves cured, and had a harsh relapse. i think itd be safe to say these cases are rare enough to have them be the outlying extremes of side effects.

Still, we don't have an etiology.  Only hypotheses. Of course there may be several causes.

[subSTRATA]

....im going to agree.
as to answer your question from before, i think those rare, psychotic episodes exhibited by a small percentage of individuals on those drugs isnt really explainable easily. it could be a rare case side effect of the drug induced by a combination of many factors, or it could be that perhaps the individual stopped taking the medicine, assuming themselves cured, and had a harsh relapse. i think itd be safe to say these cases are rare enough to have them be the outlying extremes of side effects.

Still, we don't have an etiology.  Only hypotheses. Of course there may be several causes.

i dont think we might ever have a defined etiology for what might cause these psychotic episodes; compared to the number of people on the drugs and the people who experience these psychotic breakdowns, these cases are rare enough that they would have to be studied on a case by case basis, and im not sure those few would have much in common. take for example, their social environments; their social lives (awkwardness vs normality) could have played a role in their decisions, and that sort of thing isnt really easy to say the least to factor into a study. not that there are that many cases to study  from, the shooters that end up having these breakdowns sometimes end up dead.

[chennan]

....im going to agree.
as to answer your question from before, i think those rare, psychotic episodes exhibited by a small percentage of individuals on those drugs isnt really explainable easily. it could be a rare case side effect of the drug induced by a combination of many factors, or it could be that perhaps the individual stopped taking the medicine, assuming themselves cured, and had a harsh relapse. i think itd be safe to say these cases are rare enough to have them be the outlying extremes of side effects.

Still, we don't have an etiology.  Only hypotheses. Of course there may be several causes.

i dont think we might ever have a defined etiology for what might cause these psychotic episodes; compared to the number of people on the drugs and the people who experience these psychotic breakdowns, these cases are rare enough that they would have to be studied on a case by case basis, and im not sure those few would have much in common. take for example, their social environments; their social lives (awkwardness vs normality) could have played a role in their decisions, and that sort of thing isnt really easy to say the least to factor into a study. not that there are that many cases to study  from, the shooters that end up having these breakdowns sometimes end up dead.

Well that's just the thing... when I went through my "manic episode", I didn't even feel like anything was wrong with me or the way I was acting.  To me it just seemed like everyone else was acting weird, and being real dicks to me when they pointed me out all the time and tell me that I'm acting funny.  I even pushed away my family, girlfriend, all my other buddies during my episode.  So it's pretty hard to study these people (which would include me) when they are going through these manic episodes, because they don't realize that they are going in a downward spiral of craziness.  They wouldn't want to be studied, because they feel like everything has gotten better in their lives when things really haven't.  When a person is in a manic episode, you feel on top of the world and are all that and a bag of chips.

[Spendulus]

....im going to agree.
as to answer your question from before, i think those rare, psychotic episodes exhibited by a small percentage of individuals on those drugs isnt really explainable easily. it could be a rare case side effect of the drug induced by a combination of many factors, or it could be that perhaps the individual stopped taking the medicine, assuming themselves cured, and had a harsh relapse. i think itd be safe to say these cases are rare enough to have them be the outlying extremes of side effects.

Still, we don't have an etiology.  Only hypotheses. Of course there may be several causes.

i dont think we might ever have a defined etiology for what might cause these psychotic episodes; compared to the number of people on the drugs and the people who experience these psychotic breakdowns, these cases are rare enough that they would have to be studied on a case by case basis, and im not sure those few would have much in common. take for example, their social environments; their social lives (awkwardness vs normality) could have played a role in their decisions, and that sort of thing isnt really easy to say the least to factor into a study. not that there are that many cases to study  from, the shooters that end up having these breakdowns sometimes end up dead.

Well that's just the thing... when I went through my "manic episode", I didn't even feel like anything was wrong with me or the way I was acting.  To me it just seemed like everyone else was acting weird, and being real dicks to me when they pointed me out all the time and tell me that I'm acting funny.  I even pushed away my family, girlfriend, all my other buddies during my episode.  So it's pretty hard to study these people (which would include me) when they are going through these manic episodes, because they don't realize that they are going in a downward spiral of craziness.  They wouldn't want to be studied, because they feel like everything has gotten better in their lives when things really haven't.  When a person is in a manic episode, you feel on top of the world and are all that and a bag of chips.

Regardless of what "you think" or "I think", there is the scientific method.

I'm not pushing a theory or a cause here.  But multivariant analysis might well reveal some causes.  As just one example, various "named" drugs have similar chemical effects.  Say psychotropic drugs fall into three categories of chemical effects.  We might find that sudden withdrawal from a drug of type A (of A, B, and C) was associated with psychotic violence.

Just saying....

I guess I would ask, without the scientific analysis, how would we be better than those who simply look at these events and shout "Control the GUNS!  Control the GUNS!"

[TECSHARE]

Antidepressants near top of list of drugs associated with violence https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mad-in-america/201101/psychiatric-drugs-and-violence-review-fda-data-finds-link

Thank you for reminding me of my old thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1094002.0

Yes, because what we need is you making more threads. Debate is always so much fun when one self involved douchebag is screaming over everyone else not allowing for a debate outside of his domain. You will notice I am not posting in this section at all any more. You can thank Wilikon's OCD over controlling every discussion here. Enjoy the echo chamber.

[toddtervy]

Intelligent people get heavily harassed out of jealousy.  This environment is akin to psychological torture.  The shootings are instigated, end of story.  And the U.S people seem to be particularly good at being fuckups.

[chennan]

-snip-
Intelligent people get heavily harassed out of jealousy. 

-snip-
And the U.S people seem to be particularly good at being fuckups.

I think I see some correlation of what you are saying to what you seem to be against.

Also, you said that shootings are instigated... can you provide us with some details of what you are saying?  I mean if you think about random shooting that involve little kids like Sandy Hook, that wasn't instigated by the kids... so what are you trying to say? Try to provide some details to what you are saying.

[MakingMoneyHoney]

-snip-
Intelligent people get heavily harassed out of jealousy. 

-snip-
And the U.S people seem to be particularly good at being fuckups.

I think I see some correlation of what you are saying to what you seem to be against.

Also, you said that shootings are instigated... can you provide us with some details of what you are saying?  I mean if you think about random shooting that involve little kids like Sandy Hook, that wasn't instigated by the kids... so what are you trying to say? Try to provide some details to what you are saying.

We Need to Talk about Sandy Hook - NEW 2015 Documentary

[toddtervy]

-snip-
Intelligent people get heavily harassed out of jealousy.  

-snip-
And the U.S people seem to be particularly good at being fuckups.

I think I see some correlation of what you are saying to what you seem to be against.

Also, you said that shootings are instigated... can you provide us with some details of what you are saying?  I mean if you think about random shooting that involve little kids like Sandy Hook, that wasn't instigated by the kids... so what are you trying to say? Try to provide some details to what you are saying.

I guarantee you it was.  Kids are often even worse than adults as they can get away with more.  What I'm explaining is a primal jealousy commoners feel toward anyone of much greater intelligence.
And let's be honest, America's are some real fuckups as far as the average people's of a region go.

[Spendulus]

-snip-
Intelligent people get heavily harassed out of jealousy.  

-snip-
And the U.S people seem to be particularly good at being fuckups.

I think I see some correlation of what you are saying to what you seem to be against.

Also, you said that shootings are instigated... can you provide us with some details of what you are saying?  I mean if you think about random shooting that involve little kids like Sandy Hook, that wasn't instigated by the kids... so what are you trying to say? Try to provide some details to what you are saying.

I guarantee you it was.  Kids are often even worse than adults as they can get away with more.  What I'm explaining is a primal jealousy commoners feel toward anyone of much greater intelligence.
And let's be honest, America's are some real fuckups as far as the average people's of a region go.

Gotta agree with that, man.  Those 'Merican...They voted that Bamster in....