Worldwide bitcoin lottery

[dooglus]

Question however is, since many point to pevpot, which use provably fair on their site. But there is also some point of trust https://www.pevpot.com/provably-fair to get the “blockHash”. So is this then provably fair?
I am fighting in my head a bit with this term.

I would call pevpot provably fair, because the only "trusted source" of randomness is coming from the guy who mines a particular block, and he *cannot know* the effect of his blockhash on the result of the lottery until an hour or two after he has committed to it.

The only problem here is that I am assuming that hardware doesn't exist that is capable of running a chain of a five billion pbkdf2 operations end to end in less than an hour.

blockcypher.com is used to put the ticket into it’s correct position order by time. So in a lottery batch (block) there are 10 tickets. How would they get their position (0 to 9) if not by at timestamp or some sorting algorithm?

Just use their order in the Bitcoin blockchain. No need for timestamps. Sort by block number first, and position within block second. Nobody can dispute that ordering. You can get the ordered list of transactions within a block:

Code:

$ bitcoin-cli getblock $(bitcoin-cli getblockhash 393457) | head -n 15
{
  "hash": "000000000000000006479b1d342159d8602976ad70880d44efbd78ad4aa90aee",
  "confirmations": 1,
  "size": 999832,
  "height": 393457,
  "version": 4,
  "merkleroot": "b53786c6435be31943cd2928469c5448966e05932c957d8f4b6444a14c55ddc5",
  "tx": [
    "f4605008afcbe1cd2a5e3a615ae8b62224a7e8b1e40541a043512892f783eaeb", 
    "47fe1f5519389f5bc28b00245da528a843f0c071b2fdf7e5ef95ea00e674c9d7", 
    "89d7a09abaa992c7bf66b975aec85657105227a392c45b5d2d9000044f278eac", 
    "9a0f81ac609c9211c97a41d1219c693902685ca78022be60ba716e715f0072cb", 
    "4c02830cdc86ae9e7cb7f1d1098244b11268e79c0ca2536743c02db4ce17f482", 
    "d666cdcb0c1969fe7e936071c6ae7f18b11b375a8d29a17fd2ec863b7a0a6c75", 
    "398a46ca9dc6a996f9deb937289ae6c885b017823bef58bb33e46efe673326fc", 

Since it seems like one has to choose between 100% provably fair and not use any external sources. (As I read your reply then any form of external source, then it is not provably fair)

It seems to me that it is OK to use an external source so long as that external source commits to its decision before it could know the effect of its decision. For example, at Just-Dice I could use random.org to pick the server seeds and it wouldn't matter because at the time of server seed selection I know neither the client seed nor how the player is going to play.

What system would you prefer:
A provably fair system (where you cannot remove the organiser option to be dishonest)?
Or
A system based on random beacon from some source? (Must rely on external source to be fair, but organiser cannot cheat)

I don't think the first option is viable. Nobody will play a lottery where the operator can cheat undetectably.

The 2nd option is better, but if you can somehow make it that the external source can't cheat either, that would be best. That's what pevpot's 5 billion iterations is about - preventing the miner from knowing how his block affects the result.

[JeWay]

1 ticket cost 0.01 and the winning prize is 5BTC for every 10 bets? do you mean that you will not earn a profit from it?

[ajareselde]

I always support ideas of expanding bitcoin services, but i'm not sure you will have profits with bitcoin lottery site without great deal of
advertising, since there are already sites that offer bitcoin lottery. In regards to running a honest service, you should obtain a valid licence
on bases of which you can run legitimate operation. Looking forward on development of this.

[Snezzy]

1 ticket cost 0.01 and the winning prize is 5BTC for every 10 bets? do you mean that you will not earn a profit from it?

I will make profit from this.
The intetion so far is to put 80% of ticket price into prize pool. 10% reserved for affiliates and 2% reserved for charity of some sort. This leaves 8% gross profit.
This will be sustainable in the long run for development costs, gambling license costs, support etc.

[Snezzy]

I always support ideas of expanding bitcoin services, but i'm not sure you will have profits with bitcoin lottery site without great deal of
advertising, since there are already sites that offer bitcoin lottery. In regards to running a honest service, you should obtain a valid licence
on bases of which you can run legitimate operation. Looking forward on development of this.

I agree, advertising is needed.
I already have existing company with gambling license i Curacao, which I also believe is necessary for trust.

[Joel_Jantsen]

1. The algorithm for selecting the winner in each should be a random algorithm based only on the bitcoin addresses participating.
I believe that it will very important, that this algorithm is public, so everyone can test that the draw is not tampered with in any way. But also must be so complex that nobody can predict any outcomes.
This part I think I have already covered with an algorithm that I have worked on and tested over the past couple of months.

Hey are you writing the algorithm from scratch ? I can test the efficiency of the algorithm also MTTF (Mean Time To Failure),just so you can check how reliable it is.I can do this for free.Pm me,just in case.

[Snezzy]

Just use their order in the Bitcoin blockchain. No need for timestamps. Sort by block number first, and position within block second. Nobody can dispute that ordering. You can get the ordered list of transactions within a block:

I agree, this can be done. I would however still need to get final timestamp of when "batch" completed. (If I want to stick with https://beacon.nist.gov/ and select random beacon from there)
Can blockchain timestamp here be trusted for that? (https://blockchain.info/tx-index/b6f6991d03df0e2e04dafffcd6bc418aac66049e2cd74b80f14ac86db1e3f0da?format=json)

The 2nd option is better, but if you can somehow make it that the external source can't cheat either, that would be best. That's what pevpot's 5 billion iterations is about - preventing the miner from knowing how his block affects the result.

I also agree very much with this.

[Slark]

From my experience I can tell you that bitcoin gamblers prefer direct gambling over 'passive'  and that is main reason why bitcoin lotteries are not popular enough,
and instead we have multitude of Dice, Slots, Black Jack and other popular casino games. I never seen any lottery site being even remotely popular as some Dice sites.
You would have some seriously great system and huge budget for advertising for you to success with your lottery project.

[Snezzy]

From my experience I can tell you that bitcoin gamblers prefer direct gambling over 'passive'  and that is main reason why bitcoin lotteries are not popular enough,
and instead we have multitude of Dice, Slots, Black Jack and other popular casino games. I never seen any lottery site being even remotely popular as some Dice sites.
You would have some seriously great system and huge budget for advertising for you to success with your lottery project.

Yes, I agree. But what I am really missing is gambling with life altering potential wins, which in the intension here. All I have seen so far is where you can win some fairly small prizes. I think the largest prize I have seen is around 120 BTC. So my hope is that a provably fair system offering 5000 BTC as main prize would get some attention. I want this to be alternative to all the state lotteries out there.

[JackpotRacer]

From my experience I can tell you that bitcoin gamblers prefer direct gambling over 'passive'  and that is main reason why bitcoin lotteries are not popular enough,
and instead we have multitude of Dice, Slots, Black Jack and other popular casino games. I never seen any lottery site being even remotely popular as some Dice sites.
You would have some seriously great system and huge budget for advertising for you to success with your lottery project.

Yes, I agree. But what I am really missing is gambling with life altering potential wins, which in the intension here. All I have seen so far is where you can win some fairly small prizes. I think the largest prize I have seen is around 120 BTC. So my hope is that a provably fair system offering 5000 BTC as main prize would get some attention. I want this to be alternative to all the state lotteries out there.

your lottery is offering a 5000 BTC win? or did I understand something wrong?

[bajing]

my eye balls want to jump, when i see the prize, did you really will paid to the winner or you just want try scam us ?sorry no offense, because i see based on ticket cost is really high and for this point is very suspicaz

[Snezzy]

your lottery is offering a 5000 BTC win? or did I understand something wrong?

Yes, this is the intention.

So it will work as follows:

You purchase a ticket of 0.01 BTC to enter into level 1 of the lottery.
Once 10 tickets are sold, then they will grouped into a batch (level 1 batch).
Here the first draw will happen, and the prize here is (20% of ticket costs) 0.02 BTC to the winning ticket. The winning ticket will also enter into a level 2 batch.

So when 100 tickets are sold, then 10 level 1 winners have been found and their will be 10 tickets in the level 2 draw. (Which for example could be 15% of ticket costs, 100 x 0,01 = 0.150 BTC)
The winner of the level 2 draw receives this prize and enters automatically into level 3 draw.

and so on ...

At level 7 (final level), then the prize will be 5000 BTC. Off course you need to be lucky to win this. But chances are still much better than state lotteries.

[Slark]

From my experience I can tell you that bitcoin gamblers prefer direct gambling over 'passive'  and that is main reason why bitcoin lotteries are not popular enough,
and instead we have multitude of Dice, Slots, Black Jack and other popular casino games. I never seen any lottery site being even remotely popular as some Dice sites.
You would have some seriously great system and huge budget for advertising for you to success with your lottery project.

Yes, I agree. But what I am really missing is gambling with life altering potential wins, which in the intension here. All I have seen so far is where you can win some fairly small prizes. I think the largest prize I have seen is around 120 BTC. So my hope is that a provably fair system offering 5000 BTC as main prize would get some attention. I want this to be alternative to all the state lotteries out there.

Yes, I feel your point and I wish project of big bitcoin lottery was successful as well. As you know scams in bitcoin world are rather frequent and with such big sum of money you have to convince people that you as the lottery creator/manager/owner won't run away with the jackpot. 5000 BTC is overwhelming money and can bend the will of almost any man. In Short we need PERFECT way of keeping money of participants safe.

[Snezzy]

Yes, I feel your point and I wish project of big bitcoin lottery was successful as well. As you know scams in bitcoin world are rather frequent and with such big sum of money you have to convince people that you as the lottery creator/manager/owner won't run away with the jackpot. 5000 BTC is overwhelming money and can bend the will of almost any man. In Short we need PERFECT way of keeping money of participants safe.

I completely agree, as this was also part of my 2 initial questions.

2. Securing the bitcoins
This is where I really hope to get some input from some of the users in here. (The more sceptic, the better)
How should I do to proff to participants, that price money are secured and intact?
First of all I do not like the idea of storing all that bitcoin in an online wallet, since these can be hacked.
Second I do not like to use any "escrow services" as this is just moving the risk of fraud from 1 place to another.
I hope someone can suggest a complete transparent setup where participants at any time can verify that the prize pool is intact and I way where bitcoins can only be paid to winners.
And off course cannot be hacked.
Is this possible ?

I will put company with gambling license behind, but would really like to provide real proff, if any have some good suggestions.

[dodgecharger]

All of gambling sites are centralized  has inherent weakness potential been scammer  or lacking security! So many ppl are always stepping away new gambling sites! What I want to say is that there are one block chain P2P lotto called VPN coin! If you are interested, have a look here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1057522.msg11344199#msg11344199

[Kepler510]

I always support ideas of expanding bitcoin services, but i'm not sure you will have profits with bitcoin lottery site without great deal of
advertising, since there are already sites that offer bitcoin lottery. In regards to running a honest service, you should obtain a valid licence
on bases of which you can run legitimate operation. Looking forward on development of this.

you are so right. Because if certain ads have the support you get relief funds for the gifts you give. But it doesn't matter if you already have the funds for prizes. But the advertising is very important to support the lottery site that you will manage. And the most important thing is you have to get the valid license and have an honest service, so that all customers are not upset with you. I'll wait for the next developments, hopefully can be resolved