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Author Topic: The reason that crude oil price crashed  (Read 12493 times)
freedomno1
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January 10, 2015, 01:19:23 AM
 #161


Fracking is an expensive business. Depending on site structure, companies need prices of between $60 (£40) and $100 per barrel of oil to break even. As prices drop to around $55 per barrel, investments in the sector look ever more vulnerable.

Analysts say that while bigger fracking companies might be able to sustain losses in the short term, the outlook appears bleak for the thousands of smaller,

fracking operations may default on an estimated $200bn of borrowings, raised mainly through bonds issued on Wall Street and in the City of London.

In turn, this could lead to a collapse in global financial markets similar to the 2008 crash.

first fracking operations  $200bn of borrowings  is simple one small peanuts in usa economy.FED delivery in couple year to ECB bank $3300bn also ECB delivery to FED 2500bn euro only for emergency use.and borrowings is not $200 bn ,about 120-130 bn.but bank credit is about $40 bn long term interest very low.
Second USA in any time can introduce import duties for crude oil 20-180% excluding Mexico and Canada.

In regard to your second point on import duties to promote competition.
I am not sure they would do it to defend their fracking operations, but that is what donations to the right political parties is for.

Duties make little economic sense they get West Texas Intermediate price and don't pay Brent so there is already a discount supporting a high oil price makes little economic sense especially when you consider manufacturing and truck sales.
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_neti_a_EP00_IMN_mbblpd_m.htm

Imports have been decreasing because of fracking so a duty is not going to be the solution.
http://qz.com/323571/us-oil-imports-are-back-where-they-were-in-the-late-1970s/

US imports of crude oil have tumbled to levels that were the norm back in the late 1970s. In November, the US imported just 189 million barrels of crude oil, versus 188 million barrels in November 1976. The last time we’ve had readings this low was in 1994.


Main issue with bond default is contagion but the risk is likely priced in just took some of the notes from the guardian article it takes a few different factors to end up with that end result from later posts I mentioned.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/06/oil-price-casts-shadow-over-frackings-future

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January 10, 2015, 07:08:58 PM
 #162




US imports of crude oil have tumbled to levels that were the norm back in the late 1970s. In November, the US imported just 189 million barrels of crude oil, versus 188 million barrels in November 1976. The last time we’ve had readings this low was in 1994.


Main issue with bond default is contagion but the risk is likely priced in just took some of the notes from the guardian article it takes a few different factors to end up with that end result from later posts I mentioned.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/06/oil-price-casts-shadow-over-frackings-future

the US imported just 189 million barrels of crude oil and also export derivate net importi is smaler.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/06/oil-price-casts-shadow-over-frackings-future
some well return invest for driling in 60 days,and now any price over 12 $ is profit.All big company can return loan/bond overnight.
If you find some shale company bankruptcy i am intereted for baying i pay 1-5$ to 10$
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January 11, 2015, 02:24:10 AM
Last edit: January 11, 2015, 02:43:39 AM by johnyj
 #163

IMO, before 2008, banks loaned out money to pump up house price, and eventually those houses did not worth that much because of low cost and oversupply, and then they can not dump to consumer since the consumer would just default. So they have to dump to FED (MBS)

However, once those houses were sold to FED, they are holding lots of fiat money and those money have no where to go due to low return in the general economy. And they dare not to let those money into economy either, since that will trigger heavy inflation. So they decided to send those money oversea and pump the raw material and commodities, petroleum etc...

Now after QE stopped, commercial banks' large income (sell houses to FED) also stopped, they ran low on USD, so they have to reduce the commodity purchase at other places. This affected all the industry raw material and commodities, not only petroleum



Unlike last time, FED have no interest in supporting the price of these things, so it is very likely they will fall sharply until below the manufacturing cost (market can be irrational much longer than you can imagine), just like bitcoin did. Since a high price will create investment demand, when price crashed, many investments will fail, just like blindly built mining farms during the bitcoin price rally last year

It is all pump and dump when fiat money can be created out of nothing and directed to any thing that have value. And the sad thing is that people blindly use fiat money to measure value. What a freaky era we are living in, just like Austrian economists predicted, when money supply can be manipulated, it will always give a wrong signal of market supply and demand, thus create waves of wrong investment and redistribute wealth in the process. It is very likely the next pump and dump target is bitcoin, be prepared

freedomno1
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January 11, 2015, 02:51:06 AM
 #164




US imports of crude oil have tumbled to levels that were the norm back in the late 1970s. In November, the US imported just 189 million barrels of crude oil, versus 188 million barrels in November 1976. The last time we’ve had readings this low was in 1994.


Main issue with bond default is contagion but the risk is likely priced in just took some of the notes from the guardian article it takes a few different factors to end up with that end result from later posts I mentioned.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/06/oil-price-casts-shadow-over-frackings-future

the US imported just 189 million barrels of crude oil and also export derivate net importi is smaler.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/06/oil-price-casts-shadow-over-frackings-future
some well return invest for driling in 60 days,and now any price over 12 $ is profit.All big company can return loan/bond overnight.
If you find some shale company bankruptcy i am intereted for baying i pay 1-5$ to 10$

Sure just take a shot at zerohedge
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-07/first-shale-casualty-wbh-energy-files-bankruptcy-many-more-coming
The First Shale Casualty: WBH Energy Files For Bankruptcy; Many More Coming


And I can't find any 60 day drilling returns mind showing me where it said that.

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January 11, 2015, 02:53:24 AM
 #165

This is a strange discussion.  Must oil prices be a grand conspiracy that is only about some politics?
Is it impossible that there are new oil extraction methods that have become cheaper with technical advancements.
No one has heard of "fracking"?
(It is very controversial, possibly polluting ground water, but it produces oil where it was previously impossible.)

Commodities markets tend to over-react before they balance out.

Or maybe it is all just a few people playing global chess over some imagined strange excuses that make everything happen?
People look for complex excuses instead of looking at simple data.

The conspiracy is the market conspiring to find the clearing price.
Today Saudi announced it is reducing deliveries, the fracking is not economical at prices below the $60 barrels. 
At this price, new demand will arise and price will rise, then Saudi may increase delivery (or not).

Maybe many people assume that governments control everything always.  Does it feel helpless to live in such a world?

People were less shocked when prices soared for the last few years then when they fall.  They went up from war and rumors of war which are certainly political.  (Or a failure of politics)  But now it is a conspiracy when they come down?  Maybe there is a conspiracy for peace?

I've heard of fracking actually, it's where they drill into the ground with high pressure right?
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January 11, 2015, 01:05:33 PM
 #166




US imports of crude oil have tumbled to levels that were the norm back in the late 1970s. In November, the US imported just 189 million barrels of crude oil, versus 188 million barrels in November 1976. The last time we’ve had readings this low was in 1994.


Main issue with bond default is contagion but the risk is likely priced in just took some of the notes from the guardian article it takes a few different factors to end up with that end result from later posts I mentioned.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/06/oil-price-casts-shadow-over-frackings-future

the US imported just 189 million barrels of crude oil and also export derivate net importi is smaler.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/06/oil-price-casts-shadow-over-frackings-future
some well return invest for driling in 60 days,and now any price over 12 $ is profit.All big company can return loan/bond overnight.
If you find some shale company bankruptcy i am intereted for baying i pay 1-5$ to 10$

Some fracking companies will not open new fracking zones of production at a price that low.
dmeter
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January 11, 2015, 07:48:08 PM
 #167


Sure just take a shot at zerohedge
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-07/first-shale-casualty-wbh-energy-files-bankruptcy-many-more-coming
The First Shale Casualty: WBH Energy Files For Bankruptcy; Many More Coming
And I can't find any 60 day drilling returns mind showing me where it said that.
Yes and i contact houston court because i whant bay this company.but this company don't bankrupcy because have finacial problem,bankrupcy because family-partner problem.
I spent 2000$ for nothing.
freedomno1
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January 13, 2015, 04:08:28 AM
 #168

This is a strange discussion.  Must oil prices be a grand conspiracy that is only about some politics?
Is it impossible that there are new oil extraction methods that have become cheaper with technical advancements.
No one has heard of "fracking"?
(It is very controversial, possibly polluting ground water, but it produces oil where it was previously impossible.)

People were less shocked when prices soared for the last few years then when they fall.  They went up from war and rumors of war which are certainly political.  (Or a failure of politics)  But now it is a conspiracy when they come down?  Maybe there is a conspiracy for peace?

I've heard of fracking actually, it's where they drill into the ground with high pressure right?

Drill a hole into the water/ground put high pressure get oil
Pollute the water for future generations and create the jobs of tomorrow by forcing them to purify the reservoirs we contaminate today for a lower barrel cost.
FORWARD THINKING ^^
(Water wars are next someday in the future) Or we build Saline Filters.

That said if fracking takes a break for a while that's fine gives scientists more time to analyze watershed impacts, technically it uses a whole different grade in the ground but I've seen some youtube vids so their are still kinks to figure out.

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picolo
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January 13, 2015, 11:04:58 AM
 #169


Fracking is an expensive business. Depending on site structure, companies need prices of between $60 (£40) and $100 per barrel of oil to break even. As prices drop to around $55 per barrel, investments in the sector look ever more vulnerable.

Analysts say that while bigger fracking companies might be able to sustain losses in the short term, the outlook appears bleak for the thousands of smaller,

fracking operations may default on an estimated $200bn of borrowings, raised mainly through bonds issued on Wall Street and in the City of London.

In turn, this could lead to a collapse in global financial markets similar to the 2008 crash.

first fracking operations  $200bn of borrowings  is simple one small peanuts in usa economy.FED delivery in couple year to ECB bank $3300bn also ECB delivery to FED 2500bn euro only for emergency use.and borrowings is not $200 bn ,about 120-130 bn.but bank credit is about $40 bn long term interest very low.
Second USA in any time can introduce import duties for crude oil 20-180% excluding Mexico and Canada.

Fracking was bringing growth to the US. If it brings 0.5% it's huge because it's 0.5% MORE than what would have been.
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