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Author Topic: How to avoid fraud in Bitcoin?  (Read 659 times)
Mahaiyin (OP)
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May 10, 2016, 08:30:48 AM
 #1

if miners are competing each other, actually a frauder doesn't need to have more computational power than all the integrate nodes, he only needs to have more computational power than the best of the integrate ones.
And more, the system can not be used for large amount of transactions, if one transaction involves billions of usd, I may prepare a huge farm of computer pool, to revise the blockchain.
DannyHamilton
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May 10, 2016, 12:49:21 PM
Last edit: May 27, 2016, 06:02:10 PM by DannyHamilton
 #2

Please don't post the exact same thing in two places.  It splits the conversation and makes it impossible for anyone to follow the discussion.
You already posted this exact same thing here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1467187.0

if miners are competing each other

Nope.  They are competing against the difficulty.

actually a frauder doesn't need to have more computational power than all the integrate nodes, he only needs to have more computational power than the best of the integrate ones.

That depends on what he is trying to do.  Once a transaction is confirmed, he won't be able to remove that block and still catch up with the rest of the world if he doesn't have about 50% of the global hash power.

And more, the system can not be used for large amount of transactions,

Why not?

if one transaction involves billions of usd, I may prepare a huge farm of computer pool, to revise the blockchain.

And what would that accomplish?  Why would you waste all that money if it isn't going to make any money for you?

You do realize that this system has been working just fine for nearly 8 years now, right?  It's rather silly to try and come and say:

"This thing that is working fine, isn't possible!"

Clearly it is possible, and clearly it works.  Therefore, perhaps it would make more sense for you to assume that you don't understand it, rather than making assumptions about how it can't possibly work.
Mahaiyin (OP)
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May 10, 2016, 03:43:33 PM
 #3

When miners mine, if they don't make a pool, the miners are definitely competing each other. I believe most miner use open source program. The nonce they choose all depend on same principle, that means they all compete the difficulty redundantly, in most cases only the best Miner or miner pool wins.So if one wants to fraud, he can just set up another miner pool that is better than the integrate best, then the system crashes. That means the frauder doesn't need to be better than the sum of 51% whole Bitcoin system.

The reason why no body break this is because we still have something to mine,so if I have this super mining system, I would mine instead of crash the system. But when left bitcoins are so little, and Bitcoin only face two destiny, either raise the transaction fee greatly or some big miner may go rogue to cash out their money as much as possible. Either way will ruin Bitcoin eventually.
mirana12345
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May 10, 2016, 04:01:59 PM
 #4

Wasnt there a discussion on this topic recently, in which it was said that large mining operation could continue mining without broadcasting the
result to the network instantly, but with a delay, so that they could also work on new block while the rest of the network would still continue to search the previous result.
Theres no doubt there are ways for dishonesty in the mining, but im not certain they are all reasonable fears of manipulation.
DannyHamilton
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May 10, 2016, 04:27:43 PM
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When miners mine, if they don't make a pool, the miners are definitely competing each other.

Nope.  They compete against the difficulty.  As more hash power is added, the difficulty eventually goes up, so additional mining equipment makes mining more difficult, but it makes it more difficult for everyone.

I believe most miner use open source program. The nonce they choose all depend on same principle, that means they all compete the difficulty redundantly,

Nope.  They each use their own nonce, and they each create their own block.  Therefore, the block a miner (or pool) is mining is different than the block that every other miner (or pool) is mining.

in most cases only the best Miner or miner pool wins.

Since they are mining against the difficulty, those that have more hash power will solve blocks more often.  Those that have less hash power will solve blocks less often.  Someone with 10% of the hashpower will solve 10% of the blocks, and someone with only 1% of the hash power will solve only 1% of the blocks.  If someone controls more than 50% of the hash power, they will have the ability to solve 100% of the blocks if they want to.

So if one wants to fraud, he can just set up another miner pool that is better than the integrate best, then the system crashes.

Nope.  You are incorrect.  Clearly you don't understand how the proof-of-work, and blockchain work at all.

That means the frauder doesn't need to be better than the sum of 51% whole Bitcoin system.

That depends on what he is trying to accomplish.  Once a transaction is confirmed, he won't be able to remove that block and still catch up with the rest of the world if he doesn't have about 50% of the global hash power.

The reason why no body break this is because we still have something to mine,so if I have this super mining system, I would mine instead of crash the system.

Absolute nonsense.

But when left bitcoins are so little, and Bitcoin only face two destiny, either raise the transaction fee greatly

That will depend on how many transactions are in each block.  If the block size is increased to fit many more transactions, then smaller fees may be enough.  If the blocksize stays smaller, then bitcoin will become more expensive to use.

or some big miner may go rogue to cash out their money as much as possible.

How will they "cash out their money"?  If they "go rogue", what will they be able to do that will make them money?

Either way will ruin Bitcoin eventually.

Nonsense.  It's pretty clear that you are just spouting off your own fears born from your own over-active imagination without any knowledge about how bitcoin actually works.
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May 10, 2016, 04:57:47 PM
 #6

if miners are competing each other, actually a frauder doesn't need to have more computational power than all the integrate nodes, he only needs to have more computational power than the best of the integrate ones.
And more, the system can not be used for large amount of transactions, if one transaction involves billions of usd, I may prepare a huge farm of computer pool, to revise the blockchain.

You are completely wrong, the only way to reverse one trasaction is to have the 51% of ALL the network's hashrate, that's the only way.
Taking control of the biggest miner in a pool doesn't give you the power of the rest of the users in the pool. Check your facts and read everything again.
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