Bitcoin awkward moment led into altcoin discussion...

[dballing]

The most hilariously awkward moment occurred today! So I was evangelizing about Bitcoin as usual with an electrical engineer and perked his interest provoking some questions for me. The conversation went like this:

Some of his responses…
“Bitcoin is like a digital gold? Oh great, I expected more from my gold ETFs.”
“No bank or government needed, how so?”
“Okay, but how is it secured and where does it come from or who issues it?”
“So then the mining process uses electricity to do the transactions and you can receive the coins?”
“So there’s a fixed supply of Bitcoin and you do know the rate for the new coins that are created?”
“How many Bitcoins will there be in total?”
“And how many years has this been going, like 4 right?”
“Well then who created Bitcoin?”
“You don’t know who created it??”
“He has how many coins??? Out of how many in total right now??”
(*awkward silence* as we stare at each other because I wasn’t expecting him to ask that.. then I quickly divert his attention... ROFL!) O.o

I say, “yea, I know it sounds bad, but when I was recommending it years ago the price was around $1 then it hit $1,200 a few years ago and now it’s somewhat stable at around $580.” “Also, the creator has never moved the coins, so it’s not really an issue” (more cringe >.>) “AND AND Uhhhh (oh shit) uhhhhoohhh and there were other miners that got involved sometime after he did, but he had a bit of an advantage in the beginning… (phewww, saved it I hope).

“WOW 580x return right now if you bought in at $1!?!? Uhhhhhh, hmm well I like the idea, but what about other cryptocurrency coins?”

AND that is when I realized once again that Bitcoin has an Achilles heel (since I always refrain from mentioning Satoshi’s holdings). Also, I should mention that this was a completely unbiased conversation and the existence of altcoins were never even mentioned until he asked.

Granted this guy is very astute/analytical, but he instantaneously found an issue with the founder holding that many coins and maybe he thought there is higher ROI potential with other coins.

Something tells me that your average person on the street couldn’t connect that dot or care, but man oh man is it awkward if they do. I was pitching the whole decentralized, autonomous, immutable ledger, money of the people and down with the banks revolution ideology… but then things got real awkward for about 15 seconds as we gazed into each others eyes.

However, I did mention a handful of altcoins which perked his interest. Each with a different aspects, such as:

- decentralized domain name system
- decentralized smart contract
- decentralized storage
- decentralized crowd funding
- decentralized interest yielding account
- Transactional anonymity

But my recommendations ultimately were Litecoin if you wanted a financially stable fairly launched undervalued coin with all the characteristics of Bitcoin (though no hype train right now) or Ethereum (ETH or ETC) if you wanted to play the volatility game for quick profit, but reiterated NEVER invest more than you can afford to lose.

*Disclaimer: This was a completely unbiased conversation and I ironically do hold for diversity reasons BTC, LTC, ETH/ETC and other coins with potential (so I perceive).  

What are your thoughts about Satoshi’s BTC stash?
**Not trying to FUD IN ANYWAY because I’m well aware that if the BTC price goes down the entire crypto ecosystem goes down in value as well…

[Backside walkaround]

All good and valid questions,  and intelligent ones at that.  Sounds like you did fine answering them, too.  Better than I could.  I don't think satoshi's coins are ever going to move and if they do, I see it as a founder's fee.  Like a stock option almost.

[Hueristic]

If he's looking for a 500% ROI wtf would you mention LTC. Lol thats a joke right?

BTW finding anything thats gonna give that roi is delusional. Unless you buy and pump everyshit coin that barfs out or only invest a penny so you don't crush its cap.

[dballing]

If he's looking for a 500% ROI wtf would you mention LTC. Lol thats a joke right?

BTW finding anything thats gonna give that roi is delusional. Unless you buy and pump everyshit coin that barfs out or only invest a penny so you don't crush its cap.

He never stated he wanted 500% ROI, but he was in awe that such a thing actually occurred for some early BTC investors. 

I discussed many good coin options and their functionality along with pros/cons on long/short term investment basis (risk/reward ratio). However, excluding BTC.. I see LTC and ETH/ETC being on extreme opposite sides of the spectrum in in terms of fundamentals. He can decide his own risk tolerance and make up his mind on going with a slow, but steady option or fast and wild ride. 

We need to move away from the "there can only be one coin" mindset. I like both coins for different reasons. The fact is that there will be a handful of primary coins used throughout the world for different purposes. BTC has already shown that it can't be all coins at once and as it progresses will solidify it's self as most likely the Swiss bank for value storage (Maybe they will back the new fiat with the new digital gold standard).

I love playing devils advocate. There are actually concerns I have for both LTC and ETC/ETH (along with many other coins). I can PM those concerns or post them publicly if you want.

I'm not a pessimist, but damn there is no perfect coin yet

Maybe it's like asking a car to be a plane, boat and submarine? Each has a distinct use-case and purpose.

[dballing]

All good and valid questions,  and intelligent ones at that.  Sounds like you did fine answering them, too.  Better than I could.  I don't think satoshi's coins are ever going to move and if they do, I see it as a founder's fee.  Like a stock option almost.

Satoshi's founder fee (as you call it) is currently: $580,000,000 and perhaps a fraction of this if he dumped too fast, but out of a 9.3 billion dollar market cap that is a fair compensation. I totally agree with you! This technology will have a greater impact on the world than many other billionaires contributions to humanity.

However, my concern is if Bitcoin ever hits the trillion mark. We are talking some serious fire power/control on his end.

So let's say BTC hits a $1,000,000,000,000 (1 trillion) market cap and the current BTC in circulation is 19,000,000 (based on exponential difficulty projection in the hashrate). This puts the BTC price at $52,631 roughly and his net worth at 52.6 billion dollars. Which still, I think is fair considering Bill Gates is currently worth 75B.

This might sound crazy, but I do believe BTC has the ability to reach parity with the total value of the gold market and potentially exceed it (could take 1-2 decades) since use case/utility is obviously better (especially in this digital world we now live in).

The total gold market is currently 7.8 trillion, so for quick math let's just do 7.8 x 52.6 billion = 410 billion making Satoshi the richest man in the world by a significant margin.

However, if all these derivative bubbles start to meltdown (AND they will) we're talking some SERIOUS global wealth transfer into BTC and altcoins. This could potentially make Satoshi a trillionaire if you run the numbers. Is it still a fair founders fee? Perhaps, but kings couldn't fathom this type of power and on top of that he could act as a ghost in the matrix with complete control (since he's anonymous). You also don't know if it's one man, two men or a think tank or their intentions... bum bum bummmm! If I was Satoshi I wouldn't touch the cold storage either until the entire world was dependent on my system and all infrastructure integrated into BTC. (IE. imagine the Google search algo going down for a month... people would shit their pants because global markets have built a dependence).   

BUTTTTT that requires BTC to scale for the need/demand and right now... eesh! (we need to get on that!)

Lastly, I should mention that if this were to occur BTC would cross this Rubicon where people would stop pricing things in dollars, but rather BTC (dynamics of all markets would be turned on their heads). Makes the math way more difficult, but we could quantify it and say his net worth would be 45,000,000,000 4 bedroom 2b houses OR 1MM BTC... ROFL

This will help you visual what I'm talking about here: (if you haven't already seen it)
http://money.visualcapitalist.com/all-of-the-worlds-money-and-markets-in-one-visualization/

[Hueristic]

I would love to see one BTC/XBT get moved to another address and watch the response.

I would also love to see one verifiable post from Satoshi and see if he refers to said CC as XBT or BTC.

dballing, I like your posts but have slowed down posting and adding my thoughts in any meaningful way as I've lost alot of confidence in the CC movement and have become quite jaded of late.

[dballing]

I would love to see one BTC/XBT get moved to another address and watch the response.

I would also love to see one verifiable post from Satoshi and see if he refers to said CC as XBT or BTC.

dballing, I like your posts but have slowed down posting and adding my thoughts in any meaningful way as I've lost alot of confidence in the CC movement and have become quite jaded of late.

Well I don't blame you. There are a lot of unknowns right now and the PnD's are popping out of the woodwork right now.
Sadly, it may take another Cyprus event to get BTC reignited and through that a forced consensus on how to move forward (IE scaling).

[smoothie]

BTC=ETC

Worst equation I've seen in a long time.

Far from it.

[smoothie]

I would love to see one BTC/XBT get moved to another address and watch the response.

I would also love to see one verifiable post from Satoshi and see if he refers to said CC as XBT or BTC.

dballing, I like your posts but have slowed down posting and adding my thoughts in any meaningful way as I've lost alot of confidence in the CC movement and have become quite jaded of late.

Why have you become jaded?

[smoothie]

when I was recommending it years ago

I think people need to stop selling bitcoin on hope that it may increase in price. How about sell it on the price went from $1200 to $150 or $32 to $2.

Looking at only one side of the coin is setting them up for failure.

People need to use bitcoin (use it for any number of reasons besides price increase), not buy it because they hope the price will go up.

[dballing]

when I was recommending it years ago

I think people need to stop selling bitcoin on hope that it may increase in price. How about sell it on the price went from $1200 to $150 or $32 to $2.

Looking at only one side of the coin is setting them up for failure.

People need to use bitcoin (use it for any number of reasons besides price increase), not buy it because they hope the price will go up.

Maybe you're referring to people in general? As I stated I start out by only mentioning the clear benefits leaving out the technical parts (since most don't care or find it boring or mentally over whelming). If they are more tech savvy then they ask about the tech side, but in most cases people don't seem interested and at that point I then start talking about the wealth transfer potential (humans only tend to care about personal gain unfortunately).

As for me I'm involved in crypto strictly from an ideological standpoint because I know how badly we're all getting fucked through our current monetary system. All I want is for humanity to have financial freedom/independence without the need for 3rd parties usurping their physical/mental energy. 

HOWEVER, many people I've talked to in Latin America / Caribbean absolutely LOVE the idea of Bitcoin and care less about the wealth gain. The necessity for it is much higher there and wouldn't it be ironic if third world countries were first to embrace it 100% (which could maybe pull them out of poverty).

[smoothie]

when I was recommending it years ago

I think people need to stop selling bitcoin on hope that it may increase in price. How about sell it on the price went from $1200 to $150 or $32 to $2.

Looking at only one side of the coin is setting them up for failure.

People need to use bitcoin (use it for any number of reasons besides price increase), not buy it because they hope the price will go up.

Maybe you're referring to people in general? As I stated I start out by only mentioning the clear benefits leaving out the technical parts (since most don't care or find it boring or mentally over whelming). If they are more tech savvy then they ask about the tech side, but in most cases people don't seem interested and at that point I then start talking about the wealth transfer potential (humans only tend to care about personal gain unfortunately).

As for me I'm involved in crypto strictly from an ideological standpoint because I know how badly we're all getting fucked through our current monetary system. All I want is for humanity to have financial freedom/independence without the need for 3rd parties usurping their physical/mental energy. 

HOWEVER, many people I've talked to in Latin America / Caribbean absolutely LOVE the idea of Bitcoin and care less about the wealth gain. The necessity for it is much higher there and wouldn't it be ironic if third world countries were first to embrace it 100% (which could maybe pull them out of poverty).

Your original post never clarified how you were recommending Bitcoin to others. The very next thing you speak about after making that statement is concerning price.

How did I misread that statement or series of sentences?

[dballing]

when I was recommending it years ago

I think people need to stop selling bitcoin on hope that it may increase in price. How about sell it on the price went from $1200 to $150 or $32 to $2.

Looking at only one side of the coin is setting them up for failure.

People need to use bitcoin (use it for any number of reasons besides price increase), not buy it because they hope the price will go up.

Maybe you're referring to people in general? As I stated I start out by only mentioning the clear benefits leaving out the technical parts (since most don't care or find it boring or mentally over whelming). If they are more tech savvy then they ask about the tech side, but in most cases people don't seem interested and at that point I then start talking about the wealth transfer potential (humans only tend to care about personal gain unfortunately).

As for me I'm involved in crypto strictly from an ideological standpoint because I know how badly we're all getting fucked through our current monetary system. All I want is for humanity to have financial freedom/independence without the need for 3rd parties usurping their physical/mental energy. 

HOWEVER, many people I've talked to in Latin America / Caribbean absolutely LOVE the idea of Bitcoin and care less about the wealth gain. The necessity for it is much higher there and wouldn't it be ironic if third world countries were first to embrace it 100% (which could maybe pull them out of poverty).

Your original post never clarified how you were recommending Bitcoin to others. The very next thing you speak about after making that statement is concerning price.

How did I misread that statement or series of sentences?

Hmm, I'm not sure if you read my first post or briefly skimmed it. Ahh whatever, Imma go heat up a hot pocket. Peace!

[kiklo]

*Disclaimer: This was a completely unbiased conversation and I ironically do hold for diversity reasons BTC, LTC, ETH/ETC and other coins with potential (so I perceive).  

What are your thoughts about Satoshi’s BTC stash?
**Not trying to FUD IN ANYWAY because I’m well aware that if the BTC price goes down the entire crypto ecosystem goes down in value as well…

The real danger is if someone besides satoshi gets hold of his BTC ,
they could crash the BTC market or keep it at such a low price the miners would have to stop mining it, which would freeze everyone's coin or destroy the network security.
All real & possible dangers, because BTC depends on Miners to keep it running that can't afford to operate without selling the coins, further driving the price down.

As far as it killing the entire crypto system, no it would be a shock to the system, but LTC or Doge would immediately take BTC's place.
And the only reason for that is they already have FIAT conversions in place.
Crypto to FIAT conversion is BTC only real claim to fame at the moment and that is fading.


Proof of Stake Alt coins are where the next high profits are, as BTC did not even reach it $1200 peak from 3 years ago at the halving.  
EverGreenCoin , just increased in Price 110 X from a few months ago, and really no end in site at the moment.
But if it's Price was crashed by a satoshi like account, it would still survive as the operating costs to keep a Proof of Stake coin is nothing compared to the wasteful costs of keeping a PoW coin operating.  

 

[raphma]

i understand you, generally i hear the same questions when talking about bitcoin.

[Hueristic]

I would love to see one BTC/XBT get moved to another address and watch the response.

I would also love to see one verifiable post from Satoshi and see if he refers to said CC as XBT or BTC.

dballing, I like your posts but have slowed down posting and adding my thoughts in any meaningful way as I've lost alot of confidence in the CC movement and have become quite jaded of late.

Why have you become jaded?

Years of watching scumbags profit off of others ideals while destroying any hope of those ideals becoming a reality as a result. <<---in a nutshell.