UK VAT

[Aldur1]

So I recently (2 motnhs ago) got in touch with HMRC with regards to bitocin, they have sent me the following letter which seems to indicate that we need to be charging VAT on bitcoin transactions as they are treated more ike store vouchers than currency.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wmpjyym7xztqygx/IMG_20130324_131647.jpg

Would welcome peoples thoughts and opinions on this.

[Aldur1]

Did you read the document i linked?

[Aldur1]

Is there no VAT chargeable vouchers? it been so long since i bought one i have no idea.....

[Aldur1]

Bitnumus, the thing is technically we are business's according to HMRC:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim20205.htm

[franky1]

bitcoin is still "out of scope" but even when they take their time to look into it properly i beleive bitcoin will be VAT exempt. because bitcoin is not a product.

the VALUE ADDED test scenarios they do are about:
is it a raw material that can be used to make new products.
has it been a different VAT included product that has been altered, adding value to it. to  now be in its current form.
and about another 10 scenario questions.

the important thing is this.

bitcoin itself would by their own tests be VAT exempt. but if sold as Casasius coins or in card for much like itunes/facebook cards are sold on racks in ASDA/walmart. then VAT would be applicable.

because bitcoins has had something ADDED to it (the plastic and ease of purchase at retail stores, making it more like a product) giving it extra VALUE

research why VAT is called VAT

its about ADDED VALUE.

[Aldur1]

Franky1: this is exactly what I thought when I wrote to HMRC, my aim was simply to get it in black and white so as not to get hit with it later.  But based on this letter from HMRC clearly there will be no certainty until there is some kind of legal precedent.  I plan to send them further correspondence on this subject and see what they have to say about themselves.  First I need to do more research and have lots of nice snippets from their own documentation.

[stereotype]

Franky1: this is exactly what I thought when I wrote to HMRC, my aim was simply to get it in black and white so as not to get hit with it later.  But based on this letter from HMRC clearly there will be no certainty until there is some kind of legal precedent.  I plan to send them further correspondence on this subject and see what they have to say about themselves.  First I need to do more research and have lots of nice snippets from their own documentation.

Aldur1. This a thread discussing something along the same vane, here ..... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158010.0;topicseen

[Jobe7]

Aldur1,

UK law doesn't recognise bitcoin as a currency.

Therefore you do not have to declare 'earnings' until your bitcoins are turned into fiat.

If the amount you're turning into fiat passes tax thresholds, then THAT is the amount you should be declaring.

If your trade was forever kept in bitcoin, then ye, you can try to get HMRC tax your bitcoin, AS bitcoin, and I am very interested to see how that goes.

Taxation of bitcoin, as bitcoin, is an evolutionary step for bitcoin (when it reaches that stage), and as businesses grow HMRC will one day see they need to 'tax it at source' (which is a very good thing in the long run).