To all wallet entrepreneurs out there. Please copy this huge success - Vipps

[lcf4ev]

Hi,

I have been away form the crypto world for a while and I can see that wallets have come a great way and I have tried a lot of them, but non of them are good for day-to-day usage. Not one. Relatively seen some are of course greater than others, but from a user/UX perspective they are not. They are way to complicated for common users and just not simple enough.

A big bank in Norway launched in 2015 an app called Vipps - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vipps that became, and still is very very popular.

It is so simple that everyone can use it, and A LOT of people do. From friends, to school unions, small parties, big companies, donations, cookie sales, even beggars.

Please look into this and make it for bitcoin/cryptos. There will be no need to know about bitcoin etc and people would not need to know about it.

To break it down (it must be experienced):
1. I download the app
2. I add my debit/credit card (...and bitcoins etc in the future?)
3. I give the app access to my contact list

I am ready to send and receive money to others that have the app. Soccer teams, food stands etc can just display their ID so I can also send money to them too.

Pros
* Dead simple and very convenient
...

Cons
* Lack of privacy but it's time to let that go for the masses for this kind of app
...

I want this app for bitcoin!!

Let me know if you do or know about someone - I might invest.

[pawel7777]

I don't see how most of mobile wallets could be considered complicated. If you're savvy enough to comprehend what Bitcoin is and how it works (in general) then you won't struggle.

Apart from the wallets there are other payment apps supporting bitcoins, which probably are closer to the Vipps than wallets. There's Circle app (for both BTC/fiat payments) which access your contacts and allows you to send/receive without using btc addresses if that's what you are after.

[calkob]

You must have missed some apps then because some of them like Breadwallet couldnt be any simpler ? 

[eternalgloom]

I don't see how most of mobile wallets could be considered complicated. If you're savvy enough to comprehend what Bitcoin is and how it works (in general) then you won't struggle.

Apart from the wallets there are other payment apps supporting bitcoins, which probably are closer to the Vipps than wallets. There's Circle app (for both BTC/fiat payments) which access your contacts and allows you to send/receive without using btc addresses if that's what you are after.

I think that's were most of the problems lie, a lot of people just aren't savvy enough to understand Bitcoin.
WHen they see and app like Mycelium and those addresses on the screen, it can look quite intimidating and complicated to those people.

[unamis76]

You must have missed some apps then because some of them like Breadwallet couldnt be any simpler ? 

I agree with calkob, you must have missed breadwallet

Pros
* Dead simple and very convenient
...

Cons
* Lack of privacy but it's time to let that go for the masses for this kind of app
...

breadwallet has the pros you like and doesn't have the cons If the objective is displaying an ID that makes payments easier, you can display QR codes and have pretty much any wallet read them.

[Kprawn]

There have been attempts from people to incorporate Bitcoin with Social Chat programs. Examples of this is https://coinchat.org/ and also

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gems---messaging-app-launches-encrypted-chat-using-bitcoin-based-tokens-281898291.html

The problem with this is, these chat programs are just as new as Bitcoin and not widely used... So they first need to build their user base,

before it would go viral. 

[lcf4ev]

I've tried the wallets mention here - and they are still to complicated. If you know bitcoin, sure they are simple - but you don't see "moms and grandmas" using this, you don't see kids asking their parents for money via these wallets. Why is that?

I love bitcoin and the concept, but this is still very much an engineer world. It reminds me of Linux in 1995. Great technology but hard to wrap your head around if one was not semi-tech.

I think the next generation of wallets should be:

1. Somehow add a layer to get rid of the ridiculous address 17dSwWs.... style. Yes compromises needs to be made.

2. Connect the bitcoin address to phone numbers / contact list on the phone. In that way I do not need to know or get their address send or receive money from people.

3. By default send money from and to fiat currencies and to/from bank accounts. Option to use bitocin etc money for "advanced users"

4. Integrate Stripe or such service for people that do not have the wallet installed to pay me via visa etc, or in some countries via the phone bill. This will not create the need to make the wallet "viral"

[pawel7777]

I've tried the wallets mention here - and they are still to complicated. If you know bitcoin, sure they are simple - but you don't see "moms and grandmas" using this, you don't see kids asking their parents for money via these wallets. Why is that?

I love bitcoin and the concept, but this is still very much an engineer world. It reminds me of Linux in 1995. Great technology but hard to wrap your head around if one was not semi-tech.

I think the next generation of wallets should be:

1. Somehow add a layer to get rid of the ridiculous address 17dSwWs.... style. Yes compromises needs to be made.

2. Connect the bitcoin address to phone numbers / contact list on the phone. In that way I do not need to know or get their address send or receive money from people.

3. By default send money from and to fiat currencies and to/from bank accounts. Option to use bitocin etc money for "advanced users"

4. Integrate Stripe or such service for people that do not have the wallet installed to pay me via visa etc, or in some countries via the phone bill. This will not create the need to make the wallet "viral"

You're comparing apples and oranges. Bitcoin wallets are meant for people who understand what Bitcoin is and how it works. They're mostly designed in the way to give users control of the private keys and hopefully provide other options (i.e. ability to sign messages, set own fees etc). Simplicity is not a priority here.

If anything you should be comparing your Vipps app with other mobile payment apps supporting bitcoin (non-wallets). I already mentioned Circle which solves the major "problems" you're having with wallets, allows you to send/receive without using btc addresses, you can choose preferred currency and get incoming funds auto-converted to it etc.

[unamis76]

1. Somehow add a layer to get rid of the ridiculous address 17dSwWs.... style. Yes compromises needs to be made.

2. Connect the bitcoin address to phone numbers / contact list on the phone. In that way I do not need to know or get their address send or receive money from people.

3. By default send money from and to fiat currencies and to/from bank accounts. Option to use bitocin etc money for "advanced users"

4. Integrate Stripe or such service for people that do not have the wallet installed to pay me via visa etc, or in some countries via the phone bill. This will not create the need to make the wallet "viral"

1. QR Codes allow this. You should be able to still copy the address manually if you'd like. breadwallet does this quite well. Only thing that might be different is displaying first bits or something like that on the transactions section.

2. This creates a privacy problem. But this is probably feasible, if you want to opt in.

3. So what would you like, a banking app or a Bitcoin app? Unfeasible to join both. It's like joining McDonalds and Burger King on the same building...

4. Not sure about this one, don't really have a comment about it, but why not if there are users interested...

[lcf4ev]

pawel7777:

* Agree, the Circle app is going in this direction but it's not easy enough to adapt for the masses. You still need to know about a bit about bitcoin - it's just not simple or easy to use enough.

* My point. For someone to use a bitcoin wallet today, you really need to know what bitcoin is all about. There should be no need to know about that other than bitcoin is a currency. Private keys etc should not be a part of the need-to-know to use bitcoin. No bank will ever tell you about private keys etc...

* I will give up privacy compared to ease of use and if it makes my life easier and so will a lot of people. This may go against part of the Bitcoin view, but I believe it will serve the people much and good changes to the world if it is done right.

unamis76:

1. QR codes does this to some degree but not enough. The perfect wallet should make payments as easy as sending an email or sms - to anyone around the world. Using Bitcoin as more of a protocol can make this work.

2. Agree. Yes it does create privacy problems. But I believe true privacy is in our heads, not to stay hidden from others. If privacy is part of freedom - I remember one guy said "The freest people I know are those who has nothing to hide".

3. I don't belive it is unfeasible at all. E.g it's doable to start your own regular bank (if you have the money).

4. I you were to charge me for some money you should be able to open "The Wallet", send some money to "lcf4ev" and since i did not have an account at "The Wallet" I would receive and SMS or email that asked me to pay the amount via paypal, typing inn my VISA details in an integrated service, or such (with stripe i was referring to stripe.com as an example)


I'm sure we will see this app in the next 5-10 years. Such a think is just too good not to be made. And within the 100 years I think we will see the world more and more uniting around a few currencies as storage and transfer of fiat and crypto currencies will be very easy. The decentralization part will remain but indirectly controlled just like the the internet is today. The early 90s internet had very much the same spirit to it as bitcoin has today. If I would compare the internet with bitcoin I would say it is at the same stage the internet was in 1991-92 (btw I am in my late 30s). In -95 it hit the masses for several reasons but I think mostly because of the "interface" to the internet got simplified (e.g with mosaic browser)

[CraigWrightBTC]

Vipps is still new innovation and we don't know is it will be survive or not because every people has different needing( include wallet enterpreneurs ) and it is need time for them to learning more about it.

[pawel7777]

pawel7777:

* Agree, the Circle app is going in this direction but it's not easy enough to adapt for the masses. You still need to know about a bit about bitcoin - it's just not simple or easy to use enough.

How so? Even if you've never heard of bitcoin before and you're not willing to learn, I could still send you bitcoins and they'll get auto-converted to your preferred currency. And it works the other way around, you could send me fiat and I'll receive bitcoins. It's as simple as it gets.

But yes, if you decide to set your preferred currency to BTC, then, obviously you'd need to know/learn the very basics (i.e. what btc address is), there's no way around that.

I can see few things that Circle could improve, but I don't know how could they make anything even more simple (in terms of how it works in general).

* My point. For someone to use a bitcoin wallet today, you really need to know what bitcoin is all about. There should be no need to know about that other than bitcoin is a currency. Private keys etc should not be a part of the need-to-know to use bitcoin. No bank will ever tell you about private keys etc...

Well yes, obviously. Again, that's who bitcoin wallets are for - for the people who know and use bitcoins. Why would anyone not even remotely interested in Bitcoin bother to download bitcoin wallet in the first place?
And you don't need to possess any complex knowledge, you pretty much only need to know what bitcoin address is.

* I will give up privacy compared to ease of use and if it makes my life easier and so will a lot of people. This may go against part of the Bitcoin view, but I believe it will serve the people much and good changes to the world if it is done right.

Guess what, you don't have to choose. You have both options available. You can use bitcoin wallet, giving you full control and privacy (to some degree) and you can use 3rd party payment apps for simplicity and convenience.


tl;dr You shouldn't be appealing to wallet devs, but rather pass your suggestions of improvements to relevant payment processors (Circle and alike), or just ask Vipps to support bitcoin payments.

[lcf4ev]

CraigWrightBTC:

Agree, we don't know if it will survive - but it's the best and largest mobile playment solution I have seen. Half or more of the country has a an account now (not sure about the numbers).

But, what they have done by using the contact list on the phone and other things is spot on. Fees and limited transfers is not good enough, also to slow in transfer.

pawel7777: 

tl;dr You shouldn't be appealing to wallet devs, but rather pass your suggestions of improvements to relevant payment processors (Circle and alike), or just ask Vipps to support bitcoin payments.

I am not trying to down-talk current wallets, sorry if it came out that way but there is sooo much potential her for the right kind of people. I have done several startups myself (and been living off them most of my adult life) and I wish I had the motivation, time and needs to go on with this.

I have sent feedback to other wallets, I do so with a lot of services I use.

Circle is still an BTC app even if you can use it they way you describe. Right away you see "sell or buy bitcoins" icons etc... and it is still to hard to use for most people (people are lazy).

Vipps are atm agaist bitcoins. They closed down the bank account for the local bitcoin union.


When i post ideas here - I am a little surprised that all the replies are against it and views and not one was a spin-off of the original post like "what if we do this instead, or even try xyz..."

I might be way off of course - but I believe in 5-10 years it will be here - the universal payment app for _all_ currencies. In-app possibilities for trading, car loans, house loans, credit solutions, savings etc...   A wechat for the financial world - using blockchain tech.

[lcf4ev]

Update question:

My parent in-law are from the U.S, but living in Italy. They are going to send me some money (for a vacation I pre-paid for). They will pay in Euro and send  it to me i NOK (Norwegian currency) or BTC.

They are low-tech. What wallet or web service should I suggest to them?

[tbterryboy]

I don't see how most of mobile wallets could be considered complicated. If you're savvy enough to comprehend what Bitcoin is and how it works (in general) then you won't struggle.

Apart from the wallets there are other payment apps supporting bitcoins, which probably are closer to the Vipps than wallets. There's Circle app (for both BTC/fiat payments) which access your contacts and allows you to send/receive without using btc addresses if that's what you are after.

Well said, as the op has already stated that they have been away for quite some time from the crypto work that is enough to know they have missed a lot and do not know much of the current development in the crypto world that is why they they bring this information as if it were new.