Price Matters... And Here's Why

[BitWhale]

Well, if the US Stock market is any evidence of anything atm, it's that it doesn't matter the size/market cap, it can be manipulated. We've seen single entities break central banks. A larger market cap isn't going to solve this issue by any means. It might make the threshold higher, but believe me, there will always be someone there to control it, no matter the size. There will always be volatility, & large deep-pocketed players.

Imo, the only way Bitcoin warrants a larger market cap is if it doesn't hold enough value to keep things moving. I feel like Bitcoin has become a niche passion that people dump money into "knowing" it will go "to da moon". It's a self fulfilling prophecy. This is the behavior that causes this cycle at the end of the day.

Luckily, there's more people accepting wages, paying taxes, & buying goods/services with btc now than ever. As long as this continues, bitcoin will start to be used more and more from it's true intended purpose. Wallstreet is weaseling it's way into bitcoin though, I can promise as the market cap grows, so will the players involved.

At the moment (and for bitcoins small history) there has been a severe imbalance of speculators versus users. The truth of the matter is that not a single person here is not trying to profit from BTC, it's a self fulfilling prophecy in that everyone here thinks it's going to the moon, so we all buy and it just happens to go to the moon... Tulip bubble anyone? Just because we perceive it valuable doesn't mean it's actually supposed to be THAT valuable.

Whether we like it or not, Bitcoins true value comes from escaping capital controls. Without it, (say if China decided it's pulling the plug tomorrow) it would be much less appetizing to our eastern counterparts and alot of the demand we are seeing at the moment would cease to exist, same with India... At the end of the day, we are all piggy backing off of the panic of capital controls from other countries, mixed with speculators speculating. It's the perfect storm, and I am taking full advantage but by no means do I think Bitcoin actually deserves such a high price without having as much functionality as some of the countries/businesses it currently has a larger market cap than.

PS that doesn't mean I'm not participating in the fun though, I just use human psychology to my advantage.

[ranlo]

Well, if the US Stock market is any evidence of anything atm, it's that it doesn't matter the size/market cap, it can be manipulated. We've seen single entities break central banks. A larger market cap isn't going to solve this issue by any means. It might make the threshold higher, but believe me, there will always be someone there to control it, no matter the size. There will always be volatility, & large deep-pocketed players.

Imo, the only way Bitcoin warrants a larger market cap is if it doesn't hold enough value to keep things moving. I feel like Bitcoin has become a niche passion that people dump money into "knowing" it will go "to da moon". It's a self fulfilling prophecy. This is the behavior that causes this cycle at the end of the day.

Luckily, there's more people accepting wages, paying taxes, & buying goods/services with btc now than ever. As long as this continues, bitcoin will start to be used more and more from it's true intended purpose. Wallstreet is weaseling it's way into bitcoin though, I can promise as the market cap grows, so will the players involved.

At the moment (and for bitcoins small history) there has been a severe imbalance of speculators versus users. The truth of the matter is that not a single person here is not trying to profit from BTC, it's a self fulfilling prophecy in that everyone here thinks it's going to the moon, so we all buy and it just happens to go to the moon... Tulip bubble anyone? Just because we perceive it valuable doesn't mean it's actually supposed to be THAT valuable.

Whether we like it or not, Bitcoins true value comes from escaping capital controls. Without it, (say if China decided it's pulling the plug tomorrow) it would be much less appetizing to our eastern counterparts and alot of the demand we are seeing at the moment would cease to exist, same with India... At the end of the day, we are all piggy backing off of the panic of capital controls from other countries, mixed with speculators speculating. It's the perfect storm, and I am taking full advantage

PS that doesn't mean I'm not participating in the fun though, I just use human psychology to my advantage.

Technically, your claim, then, is that BTC is a Ponzi scheme (in that its purpose is to go "to da moon"), rather than a currency. A currency just needs to be unmanipulated to resolve its purpose (though we could argue that even fiat is manipulated heavily, as it technically is, but in a different way).

[BitWhale]

Well, if the US Stock market is any evidence of anything atm, it's that it doesn't matter the size/market cap, it can be manipulated. We've seen single entities break central banks. A larger market cap isn't going to solve this issue by any means. It might make the threshold higher, but believe me, there will always be someone there to control it, no matter the size. There will always be volatility, & large deep-pocketed players.

Imo, the only way Bitcoin warrants a larger market cap is if it doesn't hold enough value to keep things moving. I feel like Bitcoin has become a niche passion that people dump money into "knowing" it will go "to da moon". It's a self fulfilling prophecy. This is the behavior that causes this cycle at the end of the day.

Luckily, there's more people accepting wages, paying taxes, & buying goods/services with btc now than ever. As long as this continues, bitcoin will start to be used more and more from it's true intended purpose. Wallstreet is weaseling it's way into bitcoin though, I can promise as the market cap grows, so will the players involved.

At the moment (and for bitcoins small history) there has been a severe imbalance of speculators versus users. The truth of the matter is that not a single person here is not trying to profit from BTC, it's a self fulfilling prophecy in that everyone here thinks it's going to the moon, so we all buy and it just happens to go to the moon... Tulip bubble anyone? Just because we perceive it valuable doesn't mean it's actually supposed to be THAT valuable.

Whether we like it or not, Bitcoins true value comes from escaping capital controls. Without it, (say if China decided it's pulling the plug tomorrow) it would be much less appetizing to our eastern counterparts and alot of the demand we are seeing at the moment would cease to exist, same with India... At the end of the day, we are all piggy backing off of the panic of capital controls from other countries, mixed with speculators speculating. It's the perfect storm, and I am taking full advantage

PS that doesn't mean I'm not participating in the fun though, I just use human psychology to my advantage.

Technically, your claim, then, is that BTC is a Ponzi scheme (in that its purpose is to go "to da moon"), rather than a currency. A currency just needs to be unmanipulated to resolve its purpose (though we could argue that even fiat is manipulated heavily, as it technically is, but in a different way).

Well, yes, you could say that, but I don't mean it as harshly as it sounds. In all honesty, I see most markets in this way, whether we are talking commodities, currencies, stocks, or coins. I even see US Medicare as a Ponzi Scheme (totally different rabbit hole for a different day).

It's not so much that it's a scheme intended to defraud, that's not what i mean. I'd mean more like that each one of us is playing the "greater fools game" as in, each one of us is willing to buy now because we believe there will be a "greater fool" in the future to buy it from us for more. I feel like when it comes down to it, the vast majority of us are here to profit and we do that by buying & holding. As more and more join the game, more and more "greater fools" get hooked in. In that sense, it really does take off like a ponzi scheme, and the rally would end when no fresh funds are coming in.

Ideally, bitcoin would be rather frictionless, you need enough liquidity to buy/sell without crazy price fluctuations, as you say. I feel like now though nearly every "trend" is exasperated by the immense amount of speculators trying to get in on the "profit train", of course now that this speculative fire is lit, i have no clue how we'd ever put it out.

Its a bhittersweet situation, because without BTC rising to 1k in the first place, it wouldn't have been so mainstream, yet now that it is mainstream-ish, it's main focus is speculation. Haha. I'm not sure that it could've happened any other way and still became as successful. I can't really complain and love bitcoin to death, so I hope you don't see my views as shaming the idea, I just have a really blunt view on speculation (that I'll admit is probably obtuse at times)

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's definitely a recipe for rollercoaster prices ^^

[BitWhale]

PS I love debates like this so please don't take it personal haha

I'd also take the growing pains of BTC any day to the blatant manipulation of our world's currencies being seen today. At least I can be sure that SN isn't going to print up 2b BTC tomorrow to pay off a debt, devaluing my holdings in the process. That's one reason I'll always hold some bitcoins.