Put the "Peer" back into p2p

[unimercio]

Just thought I'd chime.. Take a break from the "2013 Great Gox Panic"...  

I have no answers just questions.

Question:

  Isn't it ironic that a P2P technology built, funded and fueled by technocrats allows a glaring single point of failure like Gox?
  Is it not contradictory to decentralize the banks and empower the exchange(s)?

It seems our strength is our "peers". Without our support we cannot give ourselves what we want and deserve. Until we bring the "P" back into the P2P we risk being sent back crawling to the central authority.

Gox is a lesson, lets learn it and move on. We'll only get "x" number of bites at this apple before it poisons us.

I'm ready for some "Breaking Good News".

[Crenel84]

Good thoughts! There are alternatives to the exchanges but they do hold a lot of centralized power right now, especially Mt.Gox.

[statokinetics]

What do think about Ripple? It seems interesting, though I think it's definitely going to take a bit more time for me to fully wrap my head around it. I like the ideas and the structure, though.

[Mike Christ]

What do think about Ripple? It seems interesting, though I think it's definitely going to take a bit more time for me to fully wrap my head around it. I like the ideas and the structure, though.

I've known about it since it was released for beta on here and I still don't quite understand what they're trying to do.

However, whatever it is they're trying to do, if it works, it should be a decent p2p exchange.  I hope.  The debt system is very interesting, to say the least; any form of cash in, any form of cash out.

[Crenel84]

Hadn't heard of Ripple until now. Definitely looks interesting.

[Trongersoll]

If, people were content to work solely within the currency they wouldn't even see a problem. The problem came from people wanting to exchange one currency for another. Nothing about bitcoin implies simple, safe exchanging between currencies.

[Mike Christ]

If, people were content to work solely within the currency they wouldn't even see a problem. The problem came from people wanting to exchange one currency for another. Nothing about bitcoin implies simple, safe exchanging between currencies.

That's what I'm saying.  As long as Bitcoin is tied to fiat, it's grounded to the floor.  Once we're able to shed it of government influence, the sky's the limit.

Just...how does it happen?  I don't think it's a technical issue, as much as it is a change that must occur at home.

[Trongersoll]

If, people were content to work solely within the currency they wouldn't even see a problem. The problem came from people wanting to exchange one currency for another. Nothing about bitcoin implies simple, safe exchanging between currencies.

That's what I'm saying.  As long as Bitcoin is tied to fiat, it's grounded to the floor.  Once we're able to shed it of government influence, the sky's the limit.

Just...how does it happen?  I don't think it's a technical issue, as much as it is a change that must occur at home.

It can't happen. whether something is considered a currency or a commodity is determined by the buyer. The only way to disconnect from fiat currency is to refuse to exchange. But, how many miners would continue to mine if they could not exchange for their local currency?

[Mike Christ]

If, people were content to work solely within the currency they wouldn't even see a problem. The problem came from people wanting to exchange one currency for another. Nothing about bitcoin implies simple, safe exchanging between currencies.

That's what I'm saying.  As long as Bitcoin is tied to fiat, it's grounded to the floor.  Once we're able to shed it of government influence, the sky's the limit.

Just...how does it happen?  I don't think it's a technical issue, as much as it is a change that must occur at home.

It can't happen. whether something is considered a currency or a commodity is determined by the buyer. The only way to disconnect from fiat currency is to refuse to exchange. But, how many miners would continue to mine if they could not exchange for their local currency?

You're right.  They'd have to be able to buy everything they'd ever need with Bitcoin, thus making the exchange needless.  I don't see this happening for a long time, but, I do see it happening someday.

[Crenel84]

The more people accept BTC for their products and services, the faster it will be treated as a currency in its own right rather than people always wanting to exchange with another currency. This is a lot easier to do with digital goods (e.g., the eBook I have on CoinDL) or low-cost, high-margin physical goods (coffee), and much harder for high-cost items where the seller has a lot of obligations that must be paid in another currency (e.g., a car dealer who must pay rent, electricity, etc. with USD).

One of the advantages of a nationally-based currency is that it has a physical region associated with it, where it is the default currency. There is no region within which BTC is, or probably ever will be, considered the default currency. If I go to my local grocery store to buy milk, the one and only currency they will accept is USD. For their purposes, yen or pesos or CAD are all in the same boat as BTC -- not valid funds to pay for my milk. But when I lived in Germany (pre-Euro), the local store would only accept DM - they would not have let me pay for my milk in USD. That's not to say that merchants can't accept anything other than the local default currency -- but they have to have a good motivation to accept anything else, and right now I don't see any motivation for the local grocery store to accept BTC in addition to USD. Not taking BTC isn't hurting their business at all, while starting to accept BTC would add to their immediate costs as well as long-term costs because they have to make their payments in the local default currency. Even if BTC was stable (and today we see it is not), there's no reason for them to "fix" what does not seem to be broken.

Even for digital goods it's not exactly drop-dead simple to sell -- I'm not at all satisfied with CoinDL but setting up direct sales is challenging enough that I just don't have the time to learn the details and jump through the hoops. Until it's a lot easier to accept BTC (correctly), sellers will be hesitant to start accepting it.