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Author Topic: Get transaction size prior to sending your BTC?  (Read 825 times)
_JDB (OP)
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April 29, 2013, 11:52:50 PM
 #1

I have several old addresses that I have previously used for faucets (or in the case of my first address, for mining as well).  I would like to sweep the funds from those addresses into a new address.

Is there some way to get or estimate the transaction size prior to initiating the transaction?  These addresses have lots of small deposits, so I would like to transfer them to one address whilst minimizing the fees.  I mean, I would rather donate them to, say, maybe /r/bitcoin, instead of lose most of the funds to transaction fees.

If it helps, here are the current Balances and Number of Transactions for the addresses:

0.00017593 (16)
0.00243568 (361)
0.00799525 (101)
0.00972206 (264)
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April 30, 2013, 12:52:07 AM
 #2

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=186695.0

edit: corrected addresses




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DannyHamilton
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April 30, 2013, 12:55:57 AM
 #3

I have several old addresses that I have previously used for faucets (or in the case of my first address, for mining as well).  I would like to sweep the funds from those addresses into a new address.

Is there some way to get or estimate the transaction size prior to initiating the transaction?  These addresses have lots of small deposits, so I would like to transfer them to one address whilst minimizing the fees.  I mean, I would rather donate them to, say, maybe /r/bitcoin, instead of lose most of the funds to transaction fees.

If it helps, here are the current Balances and Number of Transactions for the addresses:

0.00017593 (16)
0.00243568 (361)
0.00799525 (101)
0.00972206 (264)

It will really depend on the age of the coins and your ability to access a single larger output.

With some technical skills you (or some technical person you trust) can package together the outputs in groupings that are less than 10 kilobytes.  The problem you'll have is that the priority won't be high enough due to the excessively low value of the inputs.  If you could package them together with a single larger output, you could raise the priority of the entire transaction, and avoid the mandatory fee.

As an example, lets assume that the 0.00017593 is evenly split between the 16 outputs and that they are all the same age.

That means each output would be about 0.00001099, so the priority would be:

(16 * 1,099 * age) ) / 2,920
To get a priority of 57,600,000 and avoid the mandatory fee, the coins would have to have been first confirmed:

(57,600,000 * 2,920) / (16 * 1,099) = 9,565,059 blocks ago (that's 66,424 days!)

Now if you could receive a transaction for 5 BTC and include it in your transaction the priority would be:

(500,000,000 * newcoinAge + 16 * 1,099 * oldcoinAge) / 3,100
To get a priority of 57,600,000 and avoid the mandatory fee, you could ignore the age of the "dust" and the new 5 BTC output would have to have been first confirmed:

(57,600,000 * 3100) / 500,000,000 = 357 blocks ago.

Since transactions get approximately 144 confirmations per day, this would imply that with access to a single 5 BTC output, you could consolidate the 16 bitcoins valued at 0.00001099 BTC each after just 2 and a half days.

Access to a larger single output results in a shorter wait, and/or more "dust" outputs consolidated at once.

You can probably fit about 50 outputs into a transaction before you start running into issues exceeding 10 kilobytes.

A transaction just under 10 kilobytes could be sent with no fee after a 5.71428572 BTC output ages for a week (1008 blocks).

So, get access to a 5.71428572 BTC output, consolidate 50 "dust" outputs every week.  By the end of 15 weeks you'll have consolidated it all into a single 5.73461464 BTC output.

If you are willing to draw the process out over 15 months instead of 15 weeks, you could send a transaction that is a bit less than 10 kilobytes every 30 days if you had access to a single output of 1.33333334 BTC.
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April 30, 2013, 12:57:30 AM
 #4


I suspect you were looking for this link:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=186695.msg1975647#msg1975647
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April 30, 2013, 01:50:51 AM
 #5


Yes. One of the few useful thread in the newbie area. Thanks. Would be nice if the wallet can do the calculation.

Since it is the wallet that takes the fee, I wonder why there have not many more versions of BTC wallet that offer lower fees.  I know there are a few. But it feels like ther should be more. Actually why there is no bitcoin-qt-mod ? Isn't bitcoin-qt open source?




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DannyHamilton
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April 30, 2013, 02:13:10 AM
 #6


Yes. One of the few useful thread in the newbie area. Thanks. Would be nice if the wallet can do the calculation.

Since it is the wallet that takes the fee, I wonder why there have not many more versions of BTC wallet that offer lower fees.  I know there are a few. But it feels like ther should be more. Actually why there is no bitcoin-qt-mod ? Isn't bitcoin-qt open source?

The wallet does not get the fees.  The fees go to the miner that builds the block that confirms the transaction.

Bitcoin-Qt is open source.

However, the fee rules are built into the version of Bitcoin-Qt that almost all of your peers are running.  As such, they will refuse to relay your transaction unless you include the required fee.  It isn't enough to just run a modified Bitcoin-Qt yourself, you have to convince enough other people to also run the modified Bitcoin-Qt so that your transaction has a decent chance of being relayed to a miner (or pool).  Then you have to hope that at least one of the miners (or pools) that receive your transaction are willing to include it in a block they build, and hope that they solve the block before anybody else solves a block (otherwise they have to start over).

Since the miner receives the fees from the transaction, most miners will prefer to include transactions that pay higher fees so they can increase their profits.  It will be difficult to get your transaction to a miner that will be willing to confirm your transaction instead of a higher paying one.

Note that these fees exist as a protection for the bitcoin network against a form of denial-of-service attack.  It will be difficult to get enough peers to run your modified Bitcoin-Qt, since doing so would make all of them vulnerable to the attack.
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April 30, 2013, 03:09:54 AM
 #7

The wallet does not get the fees.  The fees go to the miner that builds the block that confirms the transaction.

Thanks. I know the wallet doesn't get the fee. What I meant was that the bitcoin-qt has been acting as a fee collector.

Quote
Note that these fees exist as a protection for the bitcoin network against a form of denial-of-service attack.  It will be difficult to get enough peers to run your modified Bitcoin-Qt, since doing so would make all of them vulnerable to the attack.

It's a freedom-vs-security issue which has no clean-cut answer. It seems better to leave it to the people to decide. What if a subset of people think that the risk of DoSS attack is outweight by the fee and run a modified version of bitcoin-qt amoung themselves so that no fee (think no tax) is needed for transfer of BTC? Is this a possible choice?




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April 30, 2013, 03:12:27 AM
 #8

The wallet does not get the fees.  The fees go to the miner that builds the block that confirms the transaction.

Thanks. I know the wallet doesn't get the fee. What I meant was that the bitcoin-qt has been acting as a fee collector.

Quote
Note that these fees exist as a protection for the bitcoin network against a form of denial-of-service attack.  It will be difficult to get enough peers to run your modified Bitcoin-Qt, since doing so would make all of them vulnerable to the attack.

It's a freedom-vs-security issue which has no clean-cut answer. It seems better to leave it to the people to decide. What if a subset of people think that the risk of DoSS attack is outweight by the fee and run a modified version of bitcoin-qt amoung themselves so that no fee (think no tax) is needed for transfer of BTC? Is this a possible choice?

Yes.  Then you just need to convince miners that they should consider confirming your transactions.
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April 30, 2013, 04:33:07 AM
 #9

Yes.  Then you just need to convince miners that they should consider confirming your transactions.

I guess someone could provide a layer of virtual transfer/clearance serivce where members could transfer payment amoung themselves with competitive fees without actual moving BTCs.  The virtual wallet providers are in a good position to offer this service.




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DannyHamilton
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April 30, 2013, 04:36:59 AM
 #10

Yes.  Then you just need to convince miners that they should consider confirming your transactions.

I guess someone could provide a layer of virtual transfer/clearance serivce where members could transfer payment amoung themselves with competitive fees without actual moving BTCs.  The virtual wallet providers are in a good position to offer this service.

Yes. I expect we'll see this sort of bitcoin banking service catch on before bitcoin ever makes it into "mainstream" use.  To be trustworthy and reliable, that third-party service will need to be insured, and audited (and will probably end up regulated by governments as well).
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April 30, 2013, 05:09:01 AM
 #11


Yes. I expect we'll see this sort of bitcoin banking service catch on before bitcoin ever makes it into "mainstream" use.  To be trustworthy and reliable, that third-party service will need to be insured, and audited (and will probably end up regulated by governments as well).

I register to say something similar with respect to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=161496.msg1941220#msg1941220
BTC would need most of the financial sector -- sans the FED --  if it is to go main stream. I am posting here while doing my jail time Wink




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