BTC accepted for Solar + Mining?

[MeltManBob]

I can't find it right now but I read an article recently on Physorg.com that talked about the cost of purchase and installation in Germany compared to the US.  The cost of materials didn't differ much, the extra cost for us comes from all the bureaucratic red tape - licensing, permits, approvals and on and on.  As I stated, the estimate is right inline with the national averages for that size of a system.  Yes you can go out and buy the parts yourself but what are you going to do when you tie it in to your house? Are you going to run all new, dedicated electrical wiring so that you have 2 outlets where you used to have 1 and label one for your grid and the other for the power company? Last time I checked you have to get the power company to sign off on your installation if you're just tying it to your current electrical system which is consequently tied to their system. 

On top of that, what are you going to do if you ever have an issue with your house and your home owners insurance finds out and drops you for not having a licensed professional install the system, have the necessary permits approved etc.?  You can mikey mouse your system all day long, even if you know what you're doing but just be aware that you might be setting yourself up for a lot more costs than just a professional installation and possibly even fines, fees etc. from your city or county.

$.60/watt is on the extreme low end, I only found prices that low when you bought enough panels to equate to 5-7kw of power so thinking that you're going to buy a quality (read quality AND good warranty) panel for that price is probably unrealistic.  Finding them for $1/watt is still probably a stretch for quality and low quantity.  If you want a good price, install a 40kw system which can drop your cost per watt down to $2/watt but for small installations you're going to pay more per watt.

For anyone thinking of even attempting to do this completely DIY as in buy the solar cells, the tabbing wire, solder them together, build the frames, encapsulate them etc. GOOD LUCK! You can do it but by the time you get done it will probably be more expensive just for the materials not to mention your time spent, losses from the learning curve, losses from picking the wrong materials, the headache of learning on your own dime and the worry that your product won't last even 5 years.  Even if you only screw up one panel and then only have one more panel that screws up in 5 years, you've already brought your cost per watt up significantly even without counting your "free" labor.  I'm not sure anyone here was contemplating it but I just thought I'd share, I've looked into it, researched the different encapsulation materials and methods which is where your longevity come from and there is no cut and dry answer as to what's the best to use and it's still more expensive than pre-made panels. 

If you want solar but can't stomach the retail installation cost, find yourself a local electrician or general contractor who might be able to do it cheaper than the main guys but do it RIGHT (read permitting, power co sign off's etc.)  Don't risk your house, don't risk your install, the bureaucracy sucks here but you're not going to beat it by being super cheap. 

One alternative you DIYers might consider is buying the stuff and installing it yourself if you think you're capable but run dedicated electrical lines to a particular room for your mining and that way you bypass the power co sign off and possibly some permitting. I would also advise a free standing installation in the yard as opposed to the roof to try and avoid some serious permits.  Depending on how much of a liberal nazi loving area you live in you might get issues about "unsightliness"...

Check for federal, state and local rebates and incentives as Cochese suggested, this can offset a large portion of the cost and also check with your power company about them buying your extra electricity. They don't do that where I live but some places do which might be an incentive to over-size your install to get a faster ROI. Sorry for the rambling

[firefop]

Ha, point taken, thank you. Luckily, we can sell any of the components separately. The example I used was for a whole system being completely installed--if someone just wants to buy a factory made panel we sell those for around a buck a watt anyway, plus freight.

I think you are absolutely correct about starting with component sales (panels, batteries, inverters, etc.). I may have been overly optimistic to think someone would be willing to purchase a whole solar system with BTC right away   . Plus I have a small post count and am a complete unknown to everyone on here. Earning positive feedback from members by completing hassle-free transactions will help build my credibility with everyone. As I said in my initial post, escrow would be welcomed.

As far as putting together a solar panel from b-grade cells, I've looked into doing that in the past as a weekend project, but the pricing of cells, plus getting a soldering iron and solder, plus the wood or aluminum to build a frame, plus the plexiglass (or whatever) cover to protect the cells, plus the wire and special outdoor waterproof connectors--it was easier and less expensive to just buy a whole panel.

I've done some of that myself - the biggest cost really is the frame (since a diy guy isn't manufacturing 2000 of them) and just knowing how exactly to do it correctly.

That being said - put together a couple packages along the following lines:

grid tied inverter + panel + wiring kit + mounting hardware

or

battery packs + wiring + (maybe some options on electronics grade inverters?)

Make sure you have a kit that starts small (100w?) and can grow to (500w?) just by adding panels. offer packages like that in bitcoin and you'll get buyers all day. Advantage of you doing it this way, is you can get exact numbers on shipping costs and packaging worked into the price for each kit.

Also if you're actually selling panels close to a buck a watt... point me at the company, I'll buy with fiat in the future and save myself the labor of assembly. The same should hold true for btc - if you're company is an actual existing business... then there should be no problem following the normal sales procedure and just accepting payment via bitpay or bitcoins directly. Those of us with bitcoin incomes won't bat an eyelash if you're company is a traditional business transitioning into accepting bitcoin... no escrow needed.
 

[wrenchmonkey]

One thing to consider as well is that you can get a tax credit for purchasing solar. Paying in Bitcoin could harm your eligibility for a tax credit, unless the receipt is denominated in USD. I'm no tax expert, but just putting this out there as something to consider. 

[Cochese]

....omitted for brevity

The red tape is annoying, but I can see the purpose of a lot of it. The idea is to get people to do low cost/no cost upgrades to their home--like getting a programmable thermostat or being more aware of "vampire" loads (flat panel TVs, Blu-Rays, coffee makers, microwaves--basically anything with a clock on it unnecessarily). I also read something about how Germany cut out a lot of their red tape to allow more people got solar installed on their house. This is one instance of the US federal gov't having less red tape than some of the individual state governments.

....omitted for brevity

I love these ideas, thank you very much. If I had to size either an off-grid or a hybrid system for someone, the size of the inverter necessary to power their loads would dictate the number of panels and batteries needed for their system.

In very general terms, here's how it would work for a hybrid system where I live (in the eastern US): I decide which of the outlets in my house I want to serve using my solar panels and batteries. Ideally I determine a "comfort room," something with a few lights, maybe the plugs with tv/cable modem or dsl (comfort and communications). The big questions is: do I need a window air conditioning unit? Once I decide, I get an electrician to wire a sub-panel next to my main service panel. This sub-panel is hooked to an inverter/charger unit. This unit charges my battery bank in one of two ways: (a) the batteries are charged from the solar panels when possible (aka the sun is shining), or (b) the inverter/charger unit will charge the batteries from the grid if solar power is unavailable and the batteries get too low.

This way I save on electricity bills each month by powering some/most of my house with the electricity stored in the batteries generated from solar panels, while at the same time providing backup power to my household during times of grid outages. It's a very popular package (and much less expensive).

Each household has its own questions but if it's me:
1500 sq ft row house, front faces south
Back room is fully insulated on a slab of concrete with only east and north facing windows
Cable modem and wifi located in adjacent closet, refrigerator very close in next room...

This back room is the easiest room to cool in the summer, so it would be a no-brainer to hook up the sub-panel to the outlets here.
Six batteries would be overkill for my needs--I could probably get away with 2. Knowing that, I would likely go with 3 or 4 just to be safe. Ideally I want to have 3 or more days of electricity in case there is no grid power. Solar panels will help replenish what's in the batteries, but for every kwh discharged, I need to put back between 1.1 and 1.35 kwh (in other words, 110% to 135% of what was expended, depending on the battery).

I would need to do a projected usage for each appliance, but if I had a window A/C unit running, my system wouldn't last very long. To be perfectly honest, when the grid goes down, it's all about conservation and making sure I don't let my batteries get too depleted--otherwise they won't come back. My refrigerator is my primary concern, but having a tv/radio in an extended emergency situation can make all the difference.


tl;dr Hybrid solar/battery systems are better and cheaper, but require more planning. Designate a comfort room for when the power goes out.