drop, rise? 2011 old guard vs newbies vs speculators - the game is on

[UltimateReaper]

I'll rely on survivors and Senseis before I rely on newer folk.

[crumbcake]

"Extremely well-known VCs"? Acronym search for "VC" yields nothing meaningful in a list of 50.  In other words, extremely well-known, when applied to "VC," (virtual currency?  Virtual credit?  Virtual company?) doesn't mean much?

VC = venture capitalist.  If you google "bitcoin" and "VC", you'll see all the names.  The fact that you didn't do that makes me question the wisdom of even addressing your questions, but I'll try a few anyway.  A few of the names: Fred Wilson, Chris Dixon (of  Andreessen Horowitz).  Google for the rest.  Etc.  Major venture capitalists.

  Never heard of Fred Wilson, but googled him just as you've suggested.  His view on Bitcoin could be summed in a single statement from his blog: "...Bitcoin or something else, I'm confident we'll see the emergence of currencies that are not controlled by nation states in my lifetime."  In other words, Bitcoin, Litecoin, Feathercoin, BBQ, CNC, DDT or some other TLA-coin. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.  Oh, he also donated 500BTC to the Bitcoin Foundation last year.  Donated.  At that time bitcoin was, what, ~$12? So, let's see...  Six thousand bucks?  Didn't look up his worth, but my guess is that sum puts him out no more than the buck i give to a panhandler.

  Chris Dixon, another household name.  Googled him too.  This sums him up well enough: "Dixon himself has invested “a fair amount” in Bitcoin, although he wouldn't say how much." In other words, young tech startup investor is not embarrassed to admit he's got cash in Bitcoin.  Not news.

  Major venture capitalists?  If the firms behind these men were invested in Bitcoin, on record -- that would be news worth talking about.  I already know people invest in Bitcoin -- thinking of doing it myself.  

Heroin has "explicit legal recognition" -- as a CI drug.  What's Bitcoin recognised as?

Bitcoin is recognized as a "virtual currency".  Read the FINCEN document.

You mean this one? http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html  Why not read the part that differentiates "real currency" from "virtual currency"?  
Then you can explain how the guidelines help, rather than hurt Bitcoin.

In other words, you honestly believe that Paypal or Western Union is likely to offer bitcoin transactions?  You don't even need to convince me, just tell me that you think it likely.
If you do not, why even mention it?  

Yes, I honestly believe that WU may integrate Bitcoin into its service offerings.  Paypal, unlikely.  But the point of mentioning it is that CEOs of huge companies are talking about Bitcoin in a serious manner.  They don't make these comments off-the-cuff.  Some very serious vetting is going on.

In other words, PayPal's CEO is "talking about Bitcoin in a serious manner," but you think it "unlikely" that he's being serious?  Is this some new Interwebz kind o' sophistry?

Look, I don't need to convince you, and I don't have the time to answer all your questions.  But try researching some of these topics yourself, and you'll get a picture of what's going on. For example, check out r/bitcoin for the past week or two for all the businesses announcing that are accepting Bitcoin now.  I'm not claiming that huge businesses are accepting bitcoins, but more and more small- to -mid-sized businesses are.

If assuming me lazy & uninformed serves you well, by all means do.  Though if your intent was to preach the virtues of Bitcoin, why not treat my questions at face value, and drop the patronizing "I don't need to convince you, and I don't have the time"?    

It's good to be skeptical with Bitcoin-related discussions.  But I have little doubt that Bitcoin is going mainstream.  What that means for the price I'm still not sure.

I think so too.  Or some other cryptocurrency.  Some day.  If i only knew which, and (more importantly) when.
EDIT:  Gah!  I can't even match brackets!!

[SAQ]

"Extremely well-known VCs"? Acronym search for "VC" yields nothing meaningful in a list of 50.  In other words, extremely well-known, when applied to "VC," (virtual currency?  Virtual credit?  Virtual company?) doesn't mean much?

VC = venture capitalist.  If you google "bitcoin" and "VC", you'll see all the names.  The fact that you didn't do that makes me question the wisdom of even addressing your questions, but I'll try a few anyway.  A few of the names: Fred Wilson, Chris Dixon (of  Andreessen Horowitz).  Google for the rest.  Etc.  Major venture capitalists.

  Never heard of Fred Wilson, but googled him just as you've suggested.  His view on Bitcoin could be summed in a single statement from his blog: "...Bitcoin or something else, I'm confident we'll see the emergence of currencies that are not controlled by nation states in my lifetime."  In other words, Bitcoin, Litecoin, Feathercoin, BBQ, CNC, DDT or some other TLA-coin. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.  Oh, he also donated 500BTC to the Bitcoin Foundation last year.  Donated.  At that time bitcoin was, what, ~$12? So, let's see...  Six thousand bucks?  Didn't look up his worth, but my guess is that sum puts him out no more than the buck i give to a panhandler.

How much have you donated to the Bitcoin Foundation? And if you have money to throw around be free to send me some. Moreover, if you have money to throw around doesn't that sort of prove what was being said, investors are looking to invest.

[crumbcake]

"Extremely well-known VCs"? Acronym search for "VC" yields nothing meaningful in a list of 50.  In other words, extremely well-known, when applied to "VC," (virtual currency?  Virtual credit?  Virtual company?) doesn't mean much?

VC = venture capitalist.  If you google "bitcoin" and "VC", you'll see all the names.  The fact that you didn't do that makes me question the wisdom of even addressing your questions, but I'll try a few anyway.  A few of the names: Fred Wilson, Chris Dixon (of  Andreessen Horowitz).  Google for the rest.  Etc.  Major venture capitalists.

  Never heard of Fred Wilson, but googled him just as you've suggested.  His view on Bitcoin could be summed in a single statement from his blog: "...Bitcoin or something else, I'm confident we'll see the emergence of currencies that are not controlled by nation states in my lifetime."  In other words, Bitcoin, Litecoin, Feathercoin, BBQ, CNC, DDT or some other TLA-coin. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.  Oh, he also donated 500BTC to the Bitcoin Foundation last year.  Donated.  At that time bitcoin was, what, ~$12? So, let's see...  Six thousand bucks?  Didn't look up his worth, but my guess is that sum puts him out no more than the buck i give to a panhandler.

How much have you donated to the Bitcoin Foundation? And if you have money to throw around be free to send me some. Moreover, if you have money to throw around doesn't that sort of prove what was being said, investors are looking to invest.

I think you misread me.  I was trying to say that the $6000 or so donation to a man of Fred Wilson's caliber is equivalent to me giving a single dollar bill to a beggar.  In other words,  Fred Wilson is *six thousand times richer and better than me*.  

[crumbcake]

"Extremely well-known VCs"? Acronym search for "VC" yields nothing meaningful in a list of 50.  In other words, extremely well-known, when applied to "VC," (virtual currency?  Virtual credit?  Virtual company?) doesn't mean much?

VC = venture capitalist.  If you google "bitcoin" and "VC", you'll see all the names.  The fact that you didn't do that makes me question the wisdom of even addressing your questions, but I'll try a few anyway.  A few of the names: Fred Wilson, Chris Dixon (of  Andreessen Horowitz).  Google for the rest.  Etc.  Major venture capitalists.

  Never heard of Fred Wilson, but googled him just as you've suggested.  His view on Bitcoin could be summed in a single statement from his blog: "...Bitcoin or something else, I'm confident we'll see the emergence of currencies that are not controlled by nation states in my lifetime."  In other words, Bitcoin, Litecoin, Feathercoin, BBQ, CNC, DDT or some other TLA-coin. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.  Oh, he also donated 500BTC to the Bitcoin Foundation last year.  Donated.  At that time bitcoin was, what, ~$12? So, let's see...  Six thousand bucks?  Didn't look up his worth, but my guess is that sum puts him out no more than the buck i give to a panhandler.

How much have you donated to the Bitcoin Foundation? And if you have money to throw around be free to send me some. Moreover, if you have money to throw around doesn't that sort of prove what was being said, investors are looking to invest.

I think you misread me.  I was trying to say that the $6000 or so donation to a man of Fred Wilson's caliber is equivalent to me giving a single dollar bill to a beggar.  In other words,  Fred Wilson is *six thousand times richer and better than me*.  

P.S.

I've donated exactly 0 (zero) bitcoins to the Bitcoin Foundation.  I could have spared more, but all of my funds were tied up in competing currency, a gift of which would have been in pretty poor taste, no?  What i wanna know is how Fred got his hands on the Bitcoin?  Did he read the Scam Accusations thread?  Did he build up his ..."rep"?

[SAQ]

"Extremely well-known VCs"? Acronym search for "VC" yields nothing meaningful in a list of 50.  In other words, extremely well-known, when applied to "VC," (virtual currency?  Virtual credit?  Virtual company?) doesn't mean much?

VC = venture capitalist.  If you google "bitcoin" and "VC", you'll see all the names.  The fact that you didn't do that makes me question the wisdom of even addressing your questions, but I'll try a few anyway.  A few of the names: Fred Wilson, Chris Dixon (of  Andreessen Horowitz).  Google for the rest.  Etc.  Major venture capitalists.

  Never heard of Fred Wilson, but googled him just as you've suggested.  His view on Bitcoin could be summed in a single statement from his blog: "...Bitcoin or something else, I'm confident we'll see the emergence of currencies that are not controlled by nation states in my lifetime."  In other words, Bitcoin, Litecoin, Feathercoin, BBQ, CNC, DDT or some other TLA-coin. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.  Oh, he also donated 500BTC to the Bitcoin Foundation last year.  Donated.  At that time bitcoin was, what, ~$12? So, let's see...  Six thousand bucks?  Didn't look up his worth, but my guess is that sum puts him out no more than the buck i give to a panhandler.

How much have you donated to the Bitcoin Foundation? And if you have money to throw around be free to send me some. Moreover, if you have money to throw around doesn't that sort of prove what was being said, investors are looking to invest.

I think you misread me.  I was trying to say that the $6000 or so donation to a man of Fred Wilson's caliber is an equivalent to me giving a single dollar bill to a beggar.  In other words,  Fred Wilson is *six thousand times richer and better than me*.  

Well, it's quite nice of you to suggest that other's donations are worthless.

The point wasn't that VC's are investing in actual bitcoins. The point was that Silicon Valley is on fire with bitcoin fever. Loads of companies, many not publicly, but some publicly, are being founded and are working on infrastructure for bitcoins. That in turn is likely to lead to a healthy or healthier ecosystem for bitcoins. Making it ready for mainstream adoption.

[crumbcake]

"Extremely well-known VCs"? Acronym search for "VC" yields nothing meaningful in a list of 50.  In other words, extremely well-known, when applied to "VC," (virtual currency?  Virtual credit?  Virtual company?) doesn't mean much?

VC = venture capitalist.  If you google "bitcoin" and "VC", you'll see all the names.  The fact that you didn't do that makes me question the wisdom of even addressing your questions, but I'll try a few anyway.  A few of the names: Fred Wilson, Chris Dixon (of  Andreessen Horowitz).  Google for the rest.  Etc.  Major venture capitalists.

  Never heard of Fred Wilson, but googled him just as you've suggested.  His view on Bitcoin could be summed in a single statement from his blog: "...Bitcoin or something else, I'm confident we'll see the emergence of currencies that are not controlled by nation states in my lifetime."  In other words, Bitcoin, Litecoin, Feathercoin, BBQ, CNC, DDT or some other TLA-coin. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.  Oh, he also donated 500BTC to the Bitcoin Foundation last year.  Donated.  At that time bitcoin was, what, ~$12? So, let's see...  Six thousand bucks?  Didn't look up his worth, but my guess is that sum puts him out no more than the buck i give to a panhandler.

How much have you donated to the Bitcoin Foundation? And if you have money to throw around be free to send me some. Moreover, if you have money to throw around doesn't that sort of prove what was being said, investors are looking to invest.

I think you misread me.  I was trying to say that the $6000 or so donation to a man of Fred Wilson's caliber is an equivalent to me giving a single dollar bill to a beggar.  In other words,  Fred Wilson is *six thousand times richer and better than me*.  

Well, it's quite nice of you to suggest that other's donations are worthless.

I wouldn't dream of it!  Are you implying that my dollar gift to a gutter wino is worthless?  

The point wasn't that VC's are investing in actual bitcoins. The point was that Silicon Valley is on fire with bitcoin fever. Loads of companies, many not publicly, but some publicly, are being founded and are working on infrastructure for bitcoins. That in turn is likely to lead to a healthy or healthier ecosystem for bitcoins. Making it ready for mainstream adoption.

[crumbcake]

"Extremely well-known VCs"? Acronym search for "VC" yields nothing meaningful in a list of 50.  In other words, extremely well-known, when applied to "VC," (virtual currency?  Virtual credit?  Virtual company?) doesn't mean much?

VC = venture capitalist.  If you google "bitcoin" and "VC", you'll see all the names.  The fact that you didn't do that makes me question the wisdom of even addressing your questions, but I'll try a few anyway.  A few of the names: Fred Wilson, Chris Dixon (of  Andreessen Horowitz).  Google for the rest.  Etc.  Major venture capitalists.

  Never heard of Fred Wilson, but googled him just as you've suggested.  His view on Bitcoin could be summed in a single statement from his blog: "...Bitcoin or something else, I'm confident we'll see the emergence of currencies that are not controlled by nation states in my lifetime."  In other words, Bitcoin, Litecoin, Feathercoin, BBQ, CNC, DDT or some other TLA-coin. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.  Oh, he also donated 500BTC to the Bitcoin Foundation last year.  Donated.  At that time bitcoin was, what, ~$12? So, let's see...  Six thousand bucks?  Didn't look up his worth, but my guess is that sum puts him out no more than the buck i give to a panhandler.

How much have you donated to the Bitcoin Foundation? And if you have money to throw around be free to send me some. Moreover, if you have money to throw around doesn't that sort of prove what was being said, investors are looking to invest.

I think you misread me.  I was trying to say that the $6000 or so donation to a man of Fred Wilson's caliber is an equivalent to me giving a single dollar bill to a beggar.  In other words,  Fred Wilson is *six thousand times richer and better than me*.  

Well, it's quite nice of you to suggest that other's donations are worthless.

I wouldn't dream of it!  Are you implying that my dollar gift to a gutter wino is worthless?  

The point wasn't that VC's are investing in actual bitcoins. The point was that Silicon Valley is on fire with bitcoin fever. Loads of companies, many not publicly, but some publicly, are being founded and are working on infrastructure for bitcoins. That in turn is likely to lead to a healthy or healthier ecosystem for bitcoins. Making it ready for mainstream adoption.

P.S.
I think your experience with tech investors is different from mine.  You may feel that they put the best of the best startups in crosshairs & pull the trigger.  My experience?  Shotgun blast with two barrels of birdshot.

[Peter Lambert]

Didn't a big dump just happened a few days ago?

My guess is that there are not enough bitcoins around to crash their price much more, given the demand, unless a better cryptocoin becomes popular or some weak spot is found.

There are always enough coins to crash the market, because coins can be resold.

1 - Coins sold on market, price goes down a bit
2 - Price stays steady, goes down a bit, some people get bored or panic
3 - People who bought coins in 1 panic and sell their coins

repeat until all the bids are taken or people withdraw their bids so they don't get stuck with a dropping asset, and voila, the price goes down to nothing, even though there were 45 million bitcoins worth of bids.