Need help with transactions. Classic → HD

[damndoit]

Hello!

Need your help, guys. Googled a lot, but still has no whole picture. Maybe i'll ask stupid questions, sorry for bad english, will appreciate your answers.

I had an old-old Multibit Classic wallet. And hardly remembered password (thx to https://github.com/gurnec/btcrecover). After this i send 4 transactions:

• one test transaction 0.00015627 BTC to my multibit hd wallet. Success, but why (and where) i also send 1.21974373 BTC?
  https://blockchain.info/ru/tx/62f344688a0a12cda16faaca419f44f65c9bd2ee77049ec3c3fc5f447189a25a
• second transaction to say «thx» to creator of btcrecover. Again success, and again 0.25456592 BTC going somewhere
  https://blockchain.info/ru/tx/c2469dcb645d7cb710ca67a3f099df87239bdfd13d9b2a8930f5ab9f9cfb8704
• third was again to my multibit hd wallet. Still unconfirmed after seen by 132 peers (info from multibit hd). Why?
  https://blockchain.info/ru/tx/d225b32859361f4027ae28fca7432a46e7044c5395022ed4c71b1af451f482d3
• aaand after panic attack, send rest of btc to multibit HD. This transaction is different, send from other address. Also unconfirmed after seen by 129 peers.
  https://blockchain.info/tx/d605d02d84f9571541171bf6566111b8ea68fae97e8e4b4522bad172dcc0fdf6

Now i have Multibit Classic wallet with 0BTC and MultibitHD with 0.00015627 confirmed and 1.97 unconfirmed btc.

Questions:
— Why my first transaction looks like 1.22BTC, when i send only 0.00015627? Same question about second transaction.
— What happening with my 3-4 transactions?
— What can i do to get my BTC from this «transaction's space» to wallet?

[davecarter]

Hi!

Okay, I have some good ones for you 

Fix Unconfirmed transactions
- The reason why your transactions are unconfirmed is because the transaction fee assigned by Multibit Classic is too low for nowadays.
- To revert this situation you have to double spend these coins so the former transaction will be cancelled.
- To do that just send you back another transaction from Multibit HD to Classic but this time add a higher fee


So, to get all your BTC out from Multibit Classic is going to be quite hard if your version does not have a configurable fee. That's the reason why I'm here. My Multibit Classic version is the newest and there is no way to adjust this fee.. so all my transactions never get confirmed..

If anybody has a workaround I'll be glad to hear

[HCP]

• one test transaction 0.00015627 BTC to my multibit hd wallet. Success, but why (and where) i also send 1.21974373 BTC?
  https://blockchain.info/tx/62f344688a0a12cda16faaca419f44f65c9bd2ee77049ec3c3fc5f447189a25a

The 1.21974373 BTC is what is known as "Change". You can read about it here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Change
"Change" is created because of the way Bitcoin works... it doesn't send just the amount you request, it has to spend whole outputs generated from previous transaction. So if you received 0.5, and you want to send 0.1... it spends 0.5, sends 0.1 to the other person and you get 0.4 back as "change". I suggest you read this to help understand: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Coin_analogy

• second transaction to say «thx» to creator of btcrecover. Again success, and again 0.25456592 BTC going somewhere
  https://blockchain.info/tx/c2469dcb645d7cb710ca67a3f099df87239bdfd13d9b2a8930f5ab9f9cfb8704

Again... "change"

• third was again to my multibit hd wallet. Still unconfirmed after seen by 132 peers (info from multibit hd). Why?
  https://blockchain.info/tx/d225b32859361f4027ae28fca7432a46e7044c5395022ed4c71b1af451f482d3

"seen by peers" just means your transaction has been broadcast... it still needs to be mined into a block to be confirmed. Which isn't likely to happen for a long time... given your fee is "Fee per byte 1.499 sat/B"!!?!

Current recommended fees are like 150-300 sats/Byte... check: https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/ and https://btc.com/stats/unconfirmed-tx

• aaand after panic attack, send rest of btc to multibit HD. This transaction is different, send from other address. Also unconfirmed after seen by 129 peers.
  https://blockchain.info/tx/d605d02d84f9571541171bf6566111b8ea68fae97e8e4b4522bad172dcc0fdf6

Again... a low fee... not as bad as the other one, but still... Fee per byte 29.412 sat/B. Also, this transaction is spending an output from the previous unconfirmed transaction. It will never be able to confirm until that transaction with it's 1.499 sat/byte fee confirms... Which is likely to take a LONG time.

— What can i do to get my BTC from this «transaction's space» to wallet?

Basically... you wait. The network isn't quite as busy as it was a few days ago... https://blockchain.info/charts/mempool-count but still ~50,000 unconfirmed transactions waiting... a lot of which pay more in fees than yours


Also, you should really stop using both MultiBit Classic and MultiBit HD. BOTH of these are no longer being developed or supported (https://multibit.org/)... BOTH of these have issues which will make sending your bitcoins difficult (MBC sets fees way to low and no way to change, MBHD uses slightly higher fees but still way to low... it also has the dreaded "Password did not unlock the wallet" bug)

I would suggest you follow the instructions on their blog post (https://multibit.org/blog/2017/07/26/multibit-shutdown.html) to enable you to migrate to Electrum. They even have videos walking you through the process.

Multibit HD: https://youtu.be/E-KcY6KUVnY
Multibit Classic: https://youtu.be/LaijbTcxsv8

That's the reason why I'm here. My Multibit Classic version is the newest and there is no way to adjust this fee.. so all my transactions never get confirmed..

If anybody has a workaround I'll be glad to hear

Likewise... drop MBC... don't use MBHD either... switch to a different wallet... MultiBit is DEAD.

[damndoit]

Thanks for answers!

Fix Unconfirmed transactions
- The reason why your transactions are unconfirmed is because the transaction fee assigned by Multibit Classic is too low for nowadays.
- To revert this situation you have to double spend these coins so the former transaction will be cancelled.
- To do that just send you back another transaction from Multibit HD to Classic but this time add a higher fee

Am i correct, that your suggestion is to send «unconfirmed» BTC from HD back to MB Classic? It must be one big transaction or two smaller (as i send it to HD)? Where can i read more how this method works?

Basically... you wait. The network isn't quite as busy as it was a few days ago... https://blockchain.info/charts/mempool-count but still ~50,000 unconfirmed transactions waiting... a lot of which pay more in fees than yours

Did not know about that fee so important, shame on me. But what if my transaction will never be picked up, because of low fee? Is there any «timeout» for confirmation, when transaction canceled and BTC going back to wallet?

@HCP, what do you think about «Fix Unconfirmed transactions» option from @davecarter?

Could i migrate wallet from Classic to Electrum now, or i need to wait before BTC (somehow) come back?

[HCP]

Am i correct, that your suggestion is to send «unconfirmed» BTC from HD back to MB Classic? It must be one big transaction or two smaller (as i send it to HD)? Where can i read more how this method works?

Sending unconfirmed BTC from HD Back to MB Classic won't do anything but put another unconfirmed transaction in the mempool... he got it backwards. I think he meant to say "send again from MBC to MBHD"... effectively, a double spend. The only problem with this is that you can't easily do that with MBC. It will not let you double spend. So you'll have to do it manually.

Did not know about that fee so important, shame on me. But what if my transaction will never be picked up, because of low fee? Is there any «timeout» for confirmation, when transaction canceled and BTC going back to wallet?

Theoretically, it could stay forever... realistically, a few days assuming no one rebroadcasts your transaction. If you want it to drop... DO NOT open your wallet or MBC until you have seen that the transaction is no longer showing on block explorers like blockchain.info and blockcypher.com etc... If you open your wallet, you run the risk that it will rebroadcast the transaction again!

@HCP, what do you think about «Fix Unconfirmed transactions» option from @davecarter?

Double spending is not easy to pull off... you will need to manually create the transaction and then find some nodes to broadcast your new transaction. Most will refuse it since your first transaction is already in the mempool... also, there is simply no guarantee that the second transaction will be confirmed ahead of the 2nd one...

Could i migrate wallet from Classic to Electrum now, or i need to wait before BTC (somehow) come back?

You can do it now... if you import your keys to Electrum, it should automatically find all the current transactions anyway... It won't necessarily "fix" the current situation, but it won't make it any worse

[damndoit]

The only problem with this is that you can't easily do that with MBC.

Can i move wallet to any wallet, which allow «double spend» and try «double spend» there? Is Electrum support «double spend»?

If you want it to drop... DO NOT open your wallet or MBC until you have seen that the transaction is no longer showing on block explorers like blockchain.info and blockcypher.com etc...

Am i right that «no longer showing» mean that i'll not see those transactions here — https://blockchain.info/ru/address/1PfgJXLV5r1HopZMgzZ1iVQHFY1wxvjHC7 ? this is Multibit HD wallet address, where i send it.

[damndoit]

You can do it now... if you import your keys to Electrum, it should automatically find all the current transactions anyway... It won't necessarily "fix" the current situation, but it won't make it any worse

Aaand i migrate from MBC to Electrum. Now i confused again — in Electrum i see positive balance (1.97BTC), two confirmed transactions and don't see both unconfirmed transactions. Is it mean that now i can «double spend» BTC?

[HCP]

Can i move wallet to any wallet, which allow «double spend» and try «double spend» there? Is Electrum support «double spend»?

Not really... most "good" wallets are purposely designed to prevent double spends. For most wallets, you need to try and remove the transaction from the wallet and then try recreating it with a higher fee. Not all wallets allow you to remove the transaction.

Am i right that «no longer showing» mean that i'll not see those transactions here — https://blockchain.info/ru/address/1PfgJXLV5r1HopZMgzZ1iVQHFY1wxvjHC7 ? this is Multibit HD wallet address, where i send it.

Correct.

Aaand i migrate from MBC to Electrum. Now i confused again — in Electrum i see positive balance (1.97BTC), two confirmed transactions and don't see both unconfirmed transactions. Is it mean that now i can «double spend» BTC?

That just means that the Electrum server you are connected to, does not have those two transactions in it's mempool. It seems the transactions are slowly dropping out... it is still visible on b.info, blockexplorer.com and btc.com, but has dropped from blockcypher.com and blocktrail.com. This is a good sign. Hopefully, it will either drop completely or it will eventually confirm...

You could try to spend from Electrum now, but I would advise against it... it will just complicate things and make it a bit messy. In all likelihood, the network will most likely reject your transaction as a double spend anyway.

[damndoit]

Am i right that «no longer showing» mean that i'll not see those transactions here — https://blockchain.info/ru/address/1PfgJXLV5r1HopZMgzZ1iVQHFY1wxvjHC7 ? this is Multibit HD wallet address, where i send it.

Correct.

wow, i see now that transactions confirmed, after 38 hours! Thanks to all, waiting helped =) You need a lot of patience with BTC!

Now working on moving HD to Electrum. Tried to create new Electrum-wallet with old seed (from HD wallet, like https://youtu.be/E-KcY6KUVnY), but balance 0. Will try https://iancoleman.io/bip39/.

[HCP]

Now working on moving HD to Electrum. Tried to create new Electrum-wallet with old seed (from HD wallet, like https://youtu.be/E-KcY6KUVnY), but balance 0. Will try https://iancoleman.io/bip39/.

Just be mindful of the derivation path when importing the MBHD seed... The needs to be: m/0'

The apostrophe is important.

An easy double check is to look at the addresses generated in Electrum and see if the match the ones generated in MBHD. If the do, and the balance is still zero, it is probably a "gap limit" issue which is easily resolved

[damndoit]

Just be mindful of the derivation path when importing the MBHD seed... The needs to be: m/0'
The apostrophe is important.

I have no such step as «enter wallet derivation here». After seed words (12 words with «BIP39 seed» option) Electrum ask me to «Enter your BIP44 account number here».

[HCP]

Sounds like you have an older version... I believe that this specific functionality was added in v2.9.x. I would highly refined that you upgrade to v2.9.3:
https://download.electrum.org/2.9.3/

Without being able to specify the derivation path, you won't be able to import your MultiBit seed correctly.

[damndoit]

Without being able to specify the derivation path, you won't be able to import your MultiBit seed correctly.

Yeap, and i specify it in https://iancoleman.io/bip39/. It was a little bit risky and complicated and i paid fee for transfer my BTC to new Electrum wallet. Updating wallet will be easier way =)