Bitcoin ATM... wo?

[lebing]

Again apologies for the english in the german subforum, but my german is still terrible.

I'm living in germany now and thinking of getting a few bitcoin ATM's.

Couple of questions:

Does anyone know about the laws here in germany (or even austria/ switzerland) for this yet?
I'm thinking of putting them into bars, but does anyone have some specific location recommendations in their city/ area where they would like to see an ATM?
Is anyone else planning on doing the same thing?

Vielen dank leuter

[domob]

Again apologies for the english in the german subforum, but my german is still terrible.

I'm living in germany now and thinking of getting a few bitcoin ATM's.

Couple of questions:

Does anyone know about the laws here in germany (or even austria/ switzerland) for this yet?
I'm thinking of putting them into bars, but does anyone have some specific location recommendations in their city/ area where they would like to see an ATM?
Is anyone else planning on doing the same thing?

Vielen dank leuter

I don't have any specific recommendations or tips to you regarding regulation / law, but just want to let you know that I would really love to have an ATM near me (which would be Graz in Austria, and is unfortunately probably not the first location someone will consider for an ATM in the German-speaking region).

For Austria, you may want to contact Bitcoin Austria (http://bitcoin-austria.at/wiki/Hauptseite) which is an association founded in order to promote Bitcoins in Austria.  Maybe they have contacts about how the legal situation is.

[lebing]

Again apologies for the english in the german subforum, but my german is still terrible.

I'm living in germany now and thinking of getting a few bitcoin ATM's.

Couple of questions:

Does anyone know about the laws here in germany (or even austria/ switzerland) for this yet?
I'm thinking of putting them into bars, but does anyone have some specific location recommendations in their city/ area where they would like to see an ATM?
Is anyone else planning on doing the same thing?

Vielen dank leuter

I don't have any specific recommendations or tips to you regarding regulation / law, but just want to let you know that I would really love to have an ATM near me (which would be Graz in Austria, and is unfortunately probably not the first location someone will consider for an ATM in the German-speaking region).

For Austria, you may want to contact Bitcoin Austria (http://bitcoin-austria.at/wiki/Hauptseite) which is an association founded in order to promote Bitcoins in Austria.  Maybe they have contacts about how the legal situation is.

Great, thanks for the suggestion to contact bitcoin austria. I will definitely do that.

Are there any places in particular in Graz that you think would be a good fit for an ATM? ie maybe a place that accepts bitcoins/ has meetups, or maybe is just in an alternative area of the city where people are more open to this type of thing etc...

[Akka]

Well, I'm not sure about regulations here, but I think as long as you can only use the ATM to buy Bitcoins it should be unproblematic. Somehow like the vending machine for phone cards we have.

It will certainly get problematic if you can use the ATM to exchange Bitcoin for € as well, because than the owner has to be certified as financial service provider (at least regarding to BAFIN).

As the first places, I think the Bars that accept Bitcoin would be a very good starting point.

Sadly the wiki is not even close to up to date on them, due to the fact that it is impossible to get white listed for the German part of it. But there are quite a few now.

[domob]

Are there any places in particular in Graz that you think would be a good fit for an ATM? ie maybe a place that accepts bitcoins/ has meetups, or maybe is just in an alternative area of the city where people are more open to this type of thing etc...

At the moment, there are no Bitcoin accepting places unfortunately.  However, since two months regular meetings take place of local Bitcoin users (although I haven't been there yet because I'm currently on a stay in Munich for research).  Good places could be the Realraum (http://realraum.at/wiki/doku.php, a hacker space in the centre of Graz) or maybe at the Technical University (http://portal.tugraz.at/portal/page/portal/TU_Graz), but there are certainly also other things that come to mind (bars visited by the many students in Graz, parts of whom are into technical subjects or even directly computer science, for instance).

[candoo]

Dear lebing,

you should get in touch with local attorny offices with business experience. Its not that easy. You cant just launch your own atm somewhere.  You need licenses and a fairly business form (like a GmbH) for that kind of business.

You should calculate with at least 200-300k Euro investment costs before you can launch the atm.

[MCM-Mike]

Just a hint from a German business guy:

Germany is fare more regulated by local or state laws than you can imagine.
If you want to archive this kind of project you need a at least few lawyers and some Bank connections (like bitcoin.de)

We could talk about your project if you in the area: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235674.0

You can also contact me via PM if you like.

[lebing]

Dear lebing,

you should get in touch with local attorny offices with business experience. Its not that easy. You cant just launch your own atm somewhere.  You need licenses and a fairly business form (like a GmbH) for that kind of business.

You should calculate with at least 200-300k Euro investment costs before you can launch the atm.

Well, I imagined there might be some additional paperwork, but dear god 200-300k? Where does all of that go? Why is the gmbh necessary? Does that simply cover you in the event of a legal issue or is there some other rationale?

[fronti]

Dear lebing,

you should get in touch with local attorny offices with business experience. Its not that easy. You cant just launch your own atm somewhere.  You need licenses and a fairly business form (like a GmbH) for that kind of business.

You should calculate with at least 200-300k Euro investment costs before you can launch the atm.

Well, I imagined there might be some additional paperwork, but dear god 200-300k? Where does all of that go? Why is the gmbh necessary? Does that simply cover you in the event of a legal issue or is there some other rationale?

You don't need a gmbH. There are a lot of other forms to go to business but a gmbH sounds good for many reasons. But in EU, you can also use a ltd. Sometimes (often) you got a credit easier if you are a gmbH as there is some money in behind..
But if you donÄt need this you also donÖt need a gmbH. Also you are saver in a gmbh for legal issues..

Candoo if you have other points why a gmbH is needed, please tell me also

[candoo]

Dear lebing,

you should get in touch with local attorny offices with business experience. Its not that easy. You cant just launch your own atm somewhere.  You need licenses and a fairly business form (like a GmbH) for that kind of business.

You should calculate with at least 200-300k Euro investment costs before you can launch the atm.

Well, I imagined there might be some additional paperwork, but dear god 200-300k? Where does all of that go? Why is the gmbh necessary? Does that simply cover you in the event of a legal issue or is there some other rationale?

Of course do you need a GmbH. Or do you want to launch the company on your name?! Thats unprofessional. You should calculate with 10-20k € for the lawyer and licenses etc. Another 50-100k for the development of a atm etc. etc.. Insurance, Rent, tax accountant & adviser.
You have to write a statement of financial position every year..


Its not like "hey my name is tim, I have 2000$ and iam going to launch my very own ATM today.."

[Polarstorm]

candoo always thinks too big, thats the reason.

edit: One thing is very important. You have to know "german" very well, or you need someone who is very good at it, and english too, to translate for you. All the law stuff and so on, you know..

[candoo]

candoo always thinks too big, thats the reason.

edit: One thing is very important. You have to know "german" very well, or you need someone who is very good at it, and english too, to translate for you. All the law stuff and so on, you know..

No Polarstorm, you just need more experience in some matters. What do you think costs a Bafin license? Yeah its practical free but let me say that you will pay at least 50k for the lawyer.

[infested999]

Again apologies for the english in the german subforum, but my german is still terrible.

I'm living in germany now and thinking of getting a few bitcoin ATM's.

Couple of questions:

Does anyone know about the laws here in germany (or even austria/ switzerland) for this yet?
I'm thinking of putting them into bars, but does anyone have some specific location recommendations in their city/ area where they would like to see an ATM?
Is anyone else planning on doing the same thing?

Vielen dank leuter

If you are going to invest into setting up Bitcoin ATMs in Switzerland too I can help. It really interests me.

[IIOII]

Of course do you need a GmbH. Or do you want to launch the company on your name?! Thats unprofessional.

That's bullshit. It is not unprofessional. It is just a question of liability.

GmbH is more or less the German equivalent of a Ltd..

[infested999]

Of course do you need a GmbH. Or do you want to launch the company on your name?! Thats unprofessional.

That's bullshit. It is not unprofessional. It is just a question of liability.

GmbH is more or less the German equivalent of a Ltd..

What's the worst that can happen (biggest liability) for a Bitcoin ATM?

Ohh no! I tried to buy 1 BTC from this ATM but it broke both my legs. It didn't even give me back all my change!