Have authorities requested data on users from Indian exchanges?

[bitdragon84]

Hi,

I am a newbie BTC investor. I am aware of the technology, the laws or lack thereof (sources being Nishith Desai and Naavi.org).

I read on this forum that government authorities have requested user data and profiles from Indian exchanges like Zebpay, Unocoin, Coinsecure since 2013 for those who made $2000 or above in transactions.

If this is true, can any representatives of Zebpay, Unocoin, Coinsecure please clarify the below questions on the nature of the request.

- What qualifies as a "transaction" and how is the limit calculated?
- What is the exact transaction window/timeframe of the request?

I understand its under terms of use and perfectly reasonable request but users should know more about the nature of the request.

Regards,
B.

[100bitcoin]

I read on this forum that government authorities have requested user data and profiles from Indian exchanges like Zebpay, Unocoin, Coinsecure since 2013 for those who made $2000 or above in transactions.

Could u plz quote the source?

[1NV3ST0NM3]

Hi,

I am a newbie BTC investor. I am aware of the technology, the laws or lack thereof (sources being Nishith Desai and Naavi.org).

I read on this forum that government authorities have requested user data and profiles from Indian exchanges like Zebpay, Unocoin, Coinsecure since 2013 for those who made $2000 or above in transactions.

If this is true, can any representatives of Zebpay, Unocoin, Coinsecure please clarify the below questions on the nature of the request.

- What qualifies as a "transaction" and how is the limit calculated?
- What is the exact transaction window/timeframe of the request?

I understand its under terms of use and perfectly reasonable request but users should know more about the nature of the request.

Regards,
B.

Yes you heard it right. But, this happened around an year ago when government asked them that what tax proceedings are they carrying on before trading off bitcoins. After which unocoin remained closed for a while. After this all the exchanges came up with KYC procedures and yes your each transaction is traced through your PAN if you trade on indian exchanges.

[bitdragon84]

Hi,

I am a newbie BTC investor. I am aware of the technology, the laws or lack thereof (sources being Nishith Desai and Naavi.org).

I read on this forum that government authorities have requested user data and profiles from Indian exchanges like Zebpay, Unocoin, Coinsecure since 2013 for those who made $2000 or above in transactions.

If this is true, can any representatives of Zebpay, Unocoin, Coinsecure please clarify the below questions on the nature of the request.

- What qualifies as a "transaction" and how is the limit calculated?
- What is the exact transaction window/timeframe of the request?

I understand its under terms of use and perfectly reasonable request but users should know more about the nature of the request.

Regards,
B.

Yes you heard it right. But, this happened around an year ago when government asked them that what tax proceedings are they carrying on before trading off bitcoins. After which unocoin remained closed for a while. After this all the exchanges came up with KYC procedures and yes your each transaction is traced through your PAN if you trade on indian exchanges.

Thanks. I believe this is a fresh request for user information.

The source is here - it is as of July 2017:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=213792.140

Can representatives of exchanges please confirm or deny this rumor and elaborate on the transaction threshold, transaction window and nature of request?

[bitdragon84]

Mahim, Benson. You guys are on here. Hoping you will respond.

Zebpay had 500k downloads in May. So this probably involves a lot of users.

[SimonJones]

As long as you are paying you're taxes and not doing anything illegal, everything should be fine.

[bitcoinblog]

Any Exchanger or Online Wallet asking for PAN , that means he is taking your details for any legal action taken on them from Government. Once government ( for Ex: Paypal ) take action they will submit all the list of users from that Nation with there details.

India is second largest population , so no service want to loose this opportunity to do business in India. E-com is booming in India and i can see so many new couriers are opening day by day to handle e-com.

 

[Benson Samuel]

Nothing like this from coinsecure..
We do get enquiries, but always for a single or group of users, where something has really gone bad, Our lawyer verifies and drafts responses and sends us data dump requests. We have never divulged blanket information, however, under duress and court stress, we are aware that blanket requests are possible.

The source does look like a guess or word of mouth or bad rumour or something. I would disregard it unless there was a legitimate alarm about the same.

[polynesia]

Nothing like this from coinsecure..
We do get enquiries, but always for a single or group of users, where something has really gone bad, Our lawyer verifies and drafts responses and sends us data dump requests. We have never divulged blanket information, however, under duress and court stress, we are aware that blanket requests are possible.

The source does look like a guess or word of mouth or bad rumour or something. I would disregard it unless there was a legitimate alarm about the same.

In case of a blanket request, would users also be informed of what data has exactly been requested/ submitted?

[Benson Samuel]

Nothing like this from coinsecure..
We do get enquiries, but always for a single or group of users, where something has really gone bad, Our lawyer verifies and drafts responses and sends us data dump requests. We have never divulged blanket information, however, under duress and court stress, we are aware that blanket requests are possible.

The source does look like a guess or word of mouth or bad rumour or something. I would disregard it unless there was a legitimate alarm about the same.

In case of a blanket request, would users also be informed of what data has exactly been requested/ submitted?

Will clarify with legal and revert.
If am not wrong, during mass investigations, authorities do request non disclosure in some cases.

[bitdragon84]

Nothing like this from coinsecure..
We do get enquiries, but always for a single or group of users, where something has really gone bad, Our lawyer verifies and drafts responses and sends us data dump requests. We have never divulged blanket information, however, under duress and court stress, we are aware that blanket requests are possible.

The source does look like a guess or word of mouth or bad rumour or something. I would disregard it unless there was a legitimate alarm about the same.

In case of a blanket request, would users also be informed of what data has exactly been requested/ submitted?

Will clarify with legal and revert.
If am not wrong, during mass investigations, authorities do request non disclosure in some cases.

Thanks Benson. It is good to know Coinsecure has an ethical position.

I read on Sandeep Goenka's reddit AMA in 2016 where he said he will disclose all information when requested. This bothers me about Zebpay - also that they keep all user transactions on a ledger. I think the primary fear is Bitcoin users, being early adopters will become victims of a witchhunt. I am pretty certain that dealing on KYC exchanges is not the preferred route of money launderers and criminals - it may be LocalBitcoins, if at all - but knowing how this government works - they can make scapegoats out of regular users.

[polynesia]

Nothing like this from coinsecure..
We do get enquiries, but always for a single or group of users, where something has really gone bad, Our lawyer verifies and drafts responses and sends us data dump requests. We have never divulged blanket information, however, under duress and court stress, we are aware that blanket requests are possible.

The source does look like a guess or word of mouth or bad rumour or something. I would disregard it unless there was a legitimate alarm about the same.

In case of a blanket request, would users also be informed of what data has exactly been requested/ submitted?

Will clarify with legal and revert.
If am not wrong, during mass investigations, authorities do request non disclosure in some cases.

Will be good to know your strategy.
If there is a blanket request, governments may ask for non-disclosure to users as well. However, if you approach a court against this request, the details requested will become public knowledge as well.

[Benson Samuel]

Nothing like this from coinsecure..
We do get enquiries, but always for a single or group of users, where something has really gone bad, Our lawyer verifies and drafts responses and sends us data dump requests. We have never divulged blanket information, however, under duress and court stress, we are aware that blanket requests are possible.

The source does look like a guess or word of mouth or bad rumour or something. I would disregard it unless there was a legitimate alarm about the same.

In case of a blanket request, would users also be informed of what data has exactly been requested/ submitted?

Will clarify with legal and revert.
If am not wrong, during mass investigations, authorities do request non disclosure in some cases.

Will be good to know your strategy.
If there is a blanket request, governments may ask for non-disclosure to users as well. However, if you approach a court against this request, the details requested will become public knowledge as well.

Hey Benson,

You can tell them that we only respond to requests from authorities when such requests are issued under law in an authorized manner. Such requests as per current Indian laws are generally issued only for specific individuals and are not blanket requests. However, since most of these specific requests are part of ongoing investigations we do not disclose the same to the individual as that may entail a risk of jeopardising the request. However since most of these requests are issued after a criminal case has been registered therefore the client usually is aware that such data may be requested and we are mandated under law to provide it.

Warm Regards

Hope this answers Coinsecure's stance..
We are very different compared to others.. Realtime, large number of concurrent users is technologically damn touch to achieve, but safer from a legal perspective. Hence we went in that direction.

[kimochidesh]

Indian Exchanges like Unocoin, Zebpay, Koinex etc do ask for KYC which include Aadhar card and Pan card copy along with your photo as per Instruction of Govt. to stop the problem like money laundering, hawala transactions, and tax evasion etc.

[bitcoinblog]

Indian Exchanges like Unocoin, Zebpay, Koinex etc do ask for KYC which include Aadhar card and Pan card copy along with your photo as per Instruction of Govt. to stop the problem like money laundering, hawala transactions, and tax evasion etc.

Attaching aadhar card every where looks awkward, as the rule from Highcourt is still pending. Don't know why Court is taking too much time to pass the Rule if requirement of Aadhaar is Mandatory or compulsory. Government is not taking responsibility of Data misuse but forcing all services to attach Aadhaar Card compulsory.

[polynesia]

Nothing like this from coinsecure..
We do get enquiries, but always for a single or group of users, where something has really gone bad, Our lawyer verifies and drafts responses and sends us data dump requests. We have never divulged blanket information, however, under duress and court stress, we are aware that blanket requests are possible.

The source does look like a guess or word of mouth or bad rumour or something. I would disregard it unless there was a legitimate alarm about the same.

In case of a blanket request, would users also be informed of what data has exactly been requested/ submitted?

Will clarify with legal and revert.
If am not wrong, during mass investigations, authorities do request non disclosure in some cases.

Will be good to know your strategy.
If there is a blanket request, governments may ask for non-disclosure to users as well. However, if you approach a court against this request, the details requested will become public knowledge as well.

Hey Benson,

You can tell them that we only respond to requests from authorities when such requests are issued under law in an authorized manner. Such requests as per current Indian laws are generally issued only for specific individuals and are not blanket requests. However, since most of these specific requests are part of ongoing investigations we do not disclose the same to the individual as that may entail a risk of jeopardising the request. However since most of these requests are issued after a criminal case has been registered therefore the client usually is aware that such data may be requested and we are mandated under law to provide it.

Warm Regards

Hope this answers Coinsecure's stance..
We are very different compared to others.. Realtime, large number of concurrent users is technologically damn touch to achieve, but safer from a legal perspective. Hence we went in that direction.

The authorities seem to have harvested a list of users from the various exchanges.
The exchanges seem to have caved in and handed over user data on a platter to the authorities.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/it-notices-to-4-5-lakh-individuals-trading-in-bitcoins-across-the-country/articleshow/62121048.cms

I thought Coinsecure had a legal stance against such a disclosure?
At least Coinbase took the fight to the courts before being forced to hand over user data.....

[VCoinTech]

Nothing like this from coinsecure..
We do get enquiries, but always for a single or group of users, where something has really gone bad, Our lawyer verifies and drafts responses and sends us data dump requests. We have never divulged blanket information, however, under duress and court stress, we are aware that blanket requests are possible.

The source does look like a guess or word of mouth or bad rumour or something. I would disregard it unless there was a legitimate alarm about the same.

In case of a blanket request, would users also be informed of what data has exactly been requested/ submitted?

Will clarify with legal and revert.
If am not wrong, during mass investigations, authorities do request non disclosure in some cases.

Will be good to know your strategy.
If there is a blanket request, governments may ask for non-disclosure to users as well. However, if you approach a court against this request, the details requested will become public knowledge as well.

Hey Benson,

You can tell them that we only respond to requests from authorities when such requests are issued under law in an authorized manner. Such requests as per current Indian laws are generally issued only for specific individuals and are not blanket requests. However, since most of these specific requests are part of ongoing investigations we do not disclose the same to the individual as that may entail a risk of jeopardising the request. However since most of these requests are issued after a criminal case has been registered therefore the client usually is aware that such data may be requested and we are mandated under law to provide it.

Warm Regards

Hope this answers Coinsecure's stance..
We are very different compared to others.. Realtime, large number of concurrent users is technologically damn touch to achieve, but safer from a legal perspective. Hence we went in that direction.

The authorities seem to have harvested a list of users from the various exchanges.
The exchanges seem to have caved in and handed over user data on a platter to the authorities.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/it-notices-to-4-5-lakh-individuals-trading-in-bitcoins-across-the-country/articleshow/62121048.cms

I thought Coinsecure had a legal stance against such a disclosure?
At least Coinbase took the fight to the courts before being forced to hand over user data.....

It went as expected and the Department has all the necessary data for Proceedings/Prosecution of Pro users trading on Indian Exchanges. Little or more, not every person trading in this field is a saint and there may surely be potential loopholes and lapses in Pro User accounts. These lapses are good enough for facing a probe. Now the wait is for notices to arrive.

Something which really pricks me are the following questions:

1. How does the department check for Tax Evasion when there is no official Order/Judgement/Gazette/Release stating the taxation rules laid for people trading on Bitcoins.
2. How will government check for Tax Evasion if a person from India purchase coins out of India (Using Foreign Assets) and hold them in a Wallet of an Indian Exchange.
3. How will government check for Tax Evasion if someone is earning BTC revenue from Mining and selling the earned revenue on an Indian Exchange?

Looking for Inputs from Senior Members and Mods.

[bitdragon84]

What do you mean by Pro users?
What does the I-T department mean by 4-5 lakh HNIs as in the news reports? Who is HNI under their definition?
Considering 20 lakh active traders in India, about 70-80% have registered in the current tax year, so how can they be served notices for evasion??
There is no taxable event for buying, only for selling in rupees, so what do they mean by sending notices to 'investors'?  

So many questions and this all reeks of overreach and tax raj / vasooli.

[Blackshadow007]

What do you mean by Pro users?
What does the I-T department mean by 4-5 lakh HNIs as in the news reports? Who is HNI under their definition?
Considering 20 lakh active traders in India, about 70-80% have registered in the current tax year, so how can they be served notices for evasion??
There is no taxable event for buying, only for selling in rupees, so what do they mean by sending notices to 'investors'?  

So many questions and this all reeks of overreach and tax raj / vasooli.

This is scary news , i think those who trading 4-5 Lakh + INR in VC .