Isn't deflation a bad thing?

[knight22]

Yes deflation only is a bad thing but controlled inflation/deflation is very good! With deflation banks would not lend and we would crash via the great depression. With inflation we collapse under interest payments. I like the crypto's that are not capped to a limit but have infinite limit (inflationary) but only allowed to create certain number of coins per year (deflationary)... with this in mind we can achieve some sort of equilibrium of demand/supply where you wouldn't have people waiting to buy and you wouldn't have people eager to sell on each end of the spectrum respectively. Allowing bitcoins to be more divisible is not a solution as it does nothing to avoid any deflation statistic, this is from those who don't understand the economic side of things.

Deflation is only bad in a debt base currency. It creates recession because the money is taken out from circulation and prices cannot fall because debt (which the currency is based on) is not deflationist. When the currency is not based on debt (like bitcoin) deflation is a good thing  because everyone is wealthier.

[marcovaldo]

I'm not speaking at an individual level but at a collective level. The society has no choice to have 100% of its money supply to be debt.
No choice = slavery
Nothing less, nothing more.
But unless you admit this to yourself you will never understand that this is a real problem.

Not 100 % of the money supply is from the debt, but whatever... It's almost true.

You have no choice to die some day, do you consider yourself a slave? What do you want to do against that? Nothing. It's just fine. You can't control everything...


Please state explicitly what you dislike about it....
That the bank is making money by lending money? They are working like everyone, xx hours per week, and got the same salary as engineer, or other people. The richest man in the world is selling computer softwares (Bill Gates), and there is only 1 guy from the finance in the top 20. Yes, the bank are making money, just like every other company. And they creates thousands of jobs.


If all the richest men in the world were bankers, I would agree with you, but it's not the case.
Not to mention that oil company have 10 - 20 - 30 times the bank's benefits. And the benefit made from the bank are shared to all the shareholders: feel free to invest if you want.  


If you could not invest in the bank, and get paid with their benefits, I would understand the problem, but it's just like every other private company... And I think that the banks are not the worst "ethical" companies ever. They do not employ children in China to creates their products. You say that it is wrong because the video say so, but really?






Let me give a final example:
Private companies are exploiting water's source and you have to buy water from them. You need to drink water if you want to survive.
Would you consider a slave from them? Would you think that it is a problem? They are making money out of the water you have to drink
Like banks, they have costs, and revenues, and they can make more money than the banks.


The facts that the benefits from the banks are shared to the shareholders who invested, and not to the government, ie everyone, is your problem? Common. And why the billion of benefits generated from the sell of water are not shared to everyone aswell?

[sidhujag]

Yes deflation only is a bad thing but controlled inflation/deflation is very good! With deflation banks would not lend and we would crash via the great depression. With inflation we collapse under interest payments. I like the crypto's that are not capped to a limit but have infinite limit (inflationary) but only allowed to create certain number of coins per year (deflationary)... with this in mind we can achieve some sort of equilibrium of demand/supply where you wouldn't have people waiting to buy and you wouldn't have people eager to sell on each end of the spectrum respectively. Allowing bitcoins to be more divisible is not a solution as it does nothing to avoid any deflation statistic, this is from those who don't understand the economic side of things.

Deflation is only bad in a debt base currency. It creates recession because the money is taken out from circulation and prices cannot fall because debt (which the currency is based on) is not deflationist. When the currency is not based on debt (like bitcoin) deflation is a good thing  because everyone is wealthier.

I think a non debt based economy may be the ultimate goal but it may be too far fetching, I think that they may "settle" for something more inflationary than btc on the way to accepting a pure deflationary economy. I dont think we could do an entire switch from debt to non debt based, atleast in our lifetimes.

[knight22]

Not 100 % of the money supply is from the debt, but whatever... It's almost true.

Yes a 100%
read this http://www.rayservers.com/images/ModernMoneyMechanics.pdf

You have no choice to die some day, do you consider yourself a slave? What do you want to do against that? Nothing. It's just fine. You can't control everything...

A society that is trapped in debt with no way to get out is a modern form of slavery. But you just don't want to admit it.

Please state explicitly what you dislike about it....
That the bank is making money by lending money? They are working like everyone, xx hours per week, and got the same salary as engineer, or other people. The richest man in the world is selling computer softwares (Bill Gates), and there is only 1 guy from the finance in the top 20. Yes, the bank are making money, just like every other company. And they creates thousands of jobs.

Bank cashiers are working, yes. Not the top bankers. They are way too busy waging wars in middle east for their oil companies.

If all the richest men in the world were bankers, I would agree with you, but it's not the case.
Not to mention that oil company have 10 - 20 - 30 times the bank's benefits. And the benefit made from the bank are shared to all the shareholders: feel free to invest if you want.  

About oil companies, they mostly belong to bankers for your information. Do some research before speaking about things you do not know.
hint: Look who and how the major US banks was created

They do not employ children in China to creates their products.

This is completely false from at least a decade.

You say that it is wrong because the video say so, but really?

I have done way much research than you think. This video is simply a good summarize of the monetary system.

[knight22]

Yes deflation only is a bad thing but controlled inflation/deflation is very good! With deflation banks would not lend and we would crash via the great depression. With inflation we collapse under interest payments. I like the crypto's that are not capped to a limit but have infinite limit (inflationary) but only allowed to create certain number of coins per year (deflationary)... with this in mind we can achieve some sort of equilibrium of demand/supply where you wouldn't have people waiting to buy and you wouldn't have people eager to sell on each end of the spectrum respectively. Allowing bitcoins to be more divisible is not a solution as it does nothing to avoid any deflation statistic, this is from those who don't understand the economic side of things.

Deflation is only bad in a debt base currency. It creates recession because the money is taken out from circulation and prices cannot fall because debt (which the currency is based on) is not deflationist. When the currency is not based on debt (like bitcoin) deflation is a good thing  because everyone is wealthier.

I think a non debt based economy may be the ultimate goal but it may be too far fetching, I think that they may "settle" for something more inflationary than btc on the way to accepting a pure deflationary economy. I dont think we could do an entire switch from debt to non debt based, atleast in our lifetimes.

I have good faith that bitcoin will change things faster than this. But only time will tell...

[marcovaldo]

So your main only concern is that the benefits made from the banks are shared to people who invested in the bank and not to the government?

[knight22]

So your main only concern is that the benefits made from the banks are shared to people who invested in the bank and not to the government?

Yes mainly. As long as our governments won't control its money supply, democracy is a joke.

[sidhujag]

So your main only concern is that the benefits made from the banks are shared to people who invested in the bank and not to the government?

The issue is that when you deposit $10 the banks make interest based on $100... what work do they do such that they deserve $100? What value do they bring? Instead of bringing value to you they go and trade on the open market to make even more money off of your future debt payments. Is it safety that you money is safe? Then buy a safe and store your money in there? This is where Bitcoin helps as you are safe aslong as you keep your wallet secure (not hard to do)... same as keeping a pin number safe on your interact card!

If we create bitcoin atm's then ppl would start using them, but sure as hell banks would be there on every corner lobbying AGAINST using them. Funny world. Its nowhere near your example of selling water, since that is  a natural resource and there is a true demand/supply force in effect there.

[arhatsage]

It's strange to compare a deflationary environment in a country operating with a single currency, which is pretty clearly bad, to deflation in the value of a currency that coexists with other currencies within an economy.

The idea that Bitcoin will become "too valuable" doesn't take into account the fact that people will cave and start buying houses and yachts and so on by converting to USD in order to live the lifestyles they can now afford. In a world where bitcoin is the only currency and all services are denominated in bitcoin value, deflation might cause problems, but that will never happen and was never the point of bitcoin in the first place.

I hope we have a lively bitcoin economy with deep connections to the non-bitcoin economy the same way I hope that America has a lively economy with deep connections to other economies. I want more bitcoin-denominated services as much as anyone, but the intercourse with "the outside" is key for keeping bitcoin healthy in my opinion.