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Author Topic: Can logic sway the BTC community? (Segwit is dead)  (Read 231 times)
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February 08, 2018, 10:18:41 AM
 #21

Wow. What a nonsense in this thread.

http://segwit.party/charts/#

Several exchanges, like Coinbase, are implementing this, so this percentage will grow.

Segwit is accepted by all (!) miningpools. They don't need to signal for something already implemented.

Wow what a nonsense post. A blank chart, claiming nodes are updating to segwit (which is meaningless). No major mining pools are running segwit and the drop in transactions per block proves it.

This http://segwit.party/charts/
Is not a blank chart.

It just takes a little bit of time to load.
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February 08, 2018, 10:29:45 AM
 #22

So in summary, from reading this thread:

1) Miners voted for Segwit, and it got approved.
2) Most of them haven't implemented it yet, so the block size charts don't show a huge change.
3) Coinbase say they're going to go live with it in the next few days

Sounds like we need to wait a little while to see what happens.
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February 08, 2018, 10:41:35 AM
 #23

So in summary, from reading this thread:

1) Miners voted for Segwit, and it got approved.
2) Most of them haven't implemented it yet, so the block size charts don't show a huge change.
3) Coinbase say they're going to go live with it in the next few days

Sounds like we need to wait a little while to see what happens.

SegWit is not something that miners implement! they voted for it because they have the hashing power.
it is activated and will be effective when people use it. you can see that it already is happening but slowly. we already had 2.1 MB blocks with a lot of transactions in them.

in short it is now up to users and services to use it if they want to get the benefits of SegWit such as the capacity increase.

......
.L I V E C O I N . N E T.
.
..PROFITBOX..
██  █████████████████████████
  █████████▄      ▄██████████
█████████████▄  ▄████████████
    █████████████████████████
  ██████████▀    ▀█ ▀████████
████  █████▀  ▄▄  ▀█  ▀██████
  ████████▀  ▄██▄  ▀█   ▀████
    ██████   ▀██▀   ██   ████
  █████████▄      ▄██████████
██  █████████▄  ▄████████████
  ███████████████████████████
██  █████████████████████████
  █████████████████████▀ ███
█████████████████████▀   ███
    █████████████▀     ████
  █████████████▀   ██    ████
████  █████▀     ██    ████
  ███████▀   ██    ██    ████
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██  █████    ██    ██    ████
  ███████████████████████████
.....
thesavoyard (OP)
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February 08, 2018, 11:28:31 AM
 #24

So in summary, from reading this thread:

1) Miners voted for Segwit, and it got approved.
2) Most of them haven't implemented it yet, so the block size charts don't show a huge change.
3) Coinbase say they're going to go live with it in the next few days

Sounds like we need to wait a little while to see what happens.

1. Miners signaled for Segwit because if they didn't BIP 148 would become active. They did not vote for it or implement it.

2. They removed Segwit from their code, the transactions per minute have dropped to pre-Segwit levels.

3. So many do not understand how Bitcoin works. Only mining pools running compatible software can upgrade BTC. Coinbase can add Segwit all its wants, no one will process Segwit transactions.

Segwit was not implemented.

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February 08, 2018, 11:38:22 AM
 #25

So in summary, from reading this thread:

1) Miners voted for Segwit, and it got approved.
2) Most of them haven't implemented it yet, so the block size charts don't show a huge change.
3) Coinbase say they're going to go live with it in the next few days

Sounds like we need to wait a little while to see what happens.

1. Miners signaled for Segwit because if they didn't BIP 148 would become active. They did not vote for it or implement it.

2. They removed Segwit from their code, the transactions per minute have dropped to pre-Segwit levels.

3. So many do not understand how Bitcoin works. Only mining pools running compatible software can upgrade BTC. Coinbase can add Segwit all its wants, no one will process Segwit transactions.

Segwit was not implemented.


You don't know how it works.

Every single block over 1 MB has SegWit transactions - so almost every single block. Also block which are 1.0001 MB can't be a legacy-transaction-only  because then it is too big.

You do need to use new addresses, and that's why it's only used by a small number of users. At this time around 14% of all transactions are SegWit, if you like it or not.
And yes, you have to wait before the sheets are loaded.
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February 08, 2018, 11:50:58 AM
 #26

So in summary, from reading this thread:

1) Miners voted for Segwit, and it got approved.
2) Most of them haven't implemented it yet, so the block size charts don't show a huge change.
3) Coinbase say they're going to go live with it in the next few days

Sounds like we need to wait a little while to see what happens.

1. Miners signaled for Segwit because if they didn't BIP 148 would become active. They did not vote for it or implement it.

2. They removed Segwit from their code, the transactions per minute have dropped to pre-Segwit levels.

3. So many do not understand how Bitcoin works. Only mining pools running compatible software can upgrade BTC. Coinbase can add Segwit all its wants, no one will process Segwit transactions.

Segwit was not implemented.


You don't know how it works.

Every single block over 1 MB has SegWit transactions - so almost every single block. Also block which are 1.0001 MB can't be a legacy-transaction-only  because then it is too big.

You do need to use new addresses, and that's why it's only used by a small number of users. At this time around 14% of all transactions are SegWit, if you like it or not.
And yes, you have to wait before the sheets are loaded.

You don't know how it works. Segwit does not change block size, they dropped 2x remember? Segwit removes the signature from the wallet's private key from the block while being processed by miners and re-adds it later at the node. That means smaller data size per transaction and more transactions per block. Some miners may still be running 2mb support or it's just a mistake if they set 1mb to be 1,000 kb, because a MB is 1024 KB. But slightly larger block size does not mean Segwit, a drastic increase in transactions per second does.

 The miners are trying to keep fees as high as possible.

This my last post. If you want to be loyal to an outdated tech that will not be upgraded in any meaningful way or in any reasonable time period, you have the right to be gullible. You're getting played by the core team and BTC miners.

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February 08, 2018, 11:59:32 AM
 #27

I hope this can clarify how BTC works for you. The only way nodes can upgrade the network is by standing together and nearly universally accepting updates. This forces miners to upgrade their software as well. This was the intent of BIP 148, the most successful, but failed effort to implement change since Satoshi left.

"Think of it this way: Mining pools are the ones who mine new blocks of transactions, so they need to accept and follow the new rules in order that the new types of blocks and transactions can actually be added to the blockchain."

https://www.coindesk.com/miners-involved-bitcoin-code-changes-anyway/

brobbel
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February 08, 2018, 12:13:04 PM
 #28

So in summary, from reading this thread:

1) Miners voted for Segwit, and it got approved.
2) Most of them haven't implemented it yet, so the block size charts don't show a huge change.
3) Coinbase say they're going to go live with it in the next few days

Sounds like we need to wait a little while to see what happens.

1. Miners signaled for Segwit because if they didn't BIP 148 would become active. They did not vote for it or implement it.

2. They removed Segwit from their code, the transactions per minute have dropped to pre-Segwit levels.

3. So many do not understand how Bitcoin works. Only mining pools running compatible software can upgrade BTC. Coinbase can add Segwit all its wants, no one will process Segwit transactions.

Segwit was not implemented.


You don't know how it works.

Every single block over 1 MB has SegWit transactions - so almost every single block. Also block which are 1.0001 MB can't be a legacy-transaction-only  because then it is too big.

You do need to use new addresses, and that's why it's only used by a small number of users. At this time around 14% of all transactions are SegWit, if you like it or not.
And yes, you have to wait before the sheets are loaded.

You don't know how it works. Segwit does not change block size, they dropped 2x remember? Segwit removes the signature from the wallet's private key from the block while being processed by miners and re-adds it later at the node. That means smaller data size per transaction and more transactions per block. Some miners may still be running 2mb support or it's just a mistake if they set 1mb to be 1,000 kb, because a MB is 1024 KB. But slightly larger block size does not mean Segwit, a drastic increase in transactions per second does.

 The miners are trying to keep fees as high as possible.

This my last post. If you want to be loyal to an outdated tech that will not be upgraded in any meaningful way or in any reasonable time period, you have the right to be gullible. You're getting played by the core team and BTC miners.

If that's a mistake, like you said, all other nodes should deny the big blocks. They don't, just because they run SegWit.

So even 1 single big block will arrange rejecting all blocks above it.
thesavoyard (OP)
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February 08, 2018, 12:36:27 PM
 #29

Not if it's a soft fork... Nodes do not dictate block size, miners do, so there are no compatibility issues between nodes and miners.

and no, Segwit does not include a block size increase. So you cannot attribute a 5% increase in average block size to Segwit.

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February 08, 2018, 12:42:51 PM
Last edit: February 08, 2018, 01:07:41 PM by brobbel
 #30

Here's an example of an 100% Segwit transaction https://blockchain.info/tx/c23248b87ae5f1533e62d4e5f99ac4373a209a38050ac78b1c84b8b7b8d91b1f

And to show that there are Segwit transactions going on, a link to a busy wallet address:
https://btc.com/bc1qwqdg6squsna38e46795at95yu9atm8azzmyvckulcc7kytlcckxswvvzej
DooMAD
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February 08, 2018, 02:21:00 PM
Last edit: February 08, 2018, 02:31:14 PM by DooMAD
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 #31

You don't know how it works. Segwit does not change block size, they dropped 2x remember? Segwit removes the signature from the wallet's private key from the block while being processed by miners and re-adds it later at the node. That means smaller data size per transaction and more transactions per block. Some miners may still be running 2mb support or it's just a mistake if they set 1mb to be 1,000 kb, because a MB is 1024 KB. But slightly larger block size does not mean Segwit, a drastic increase in transactions per second does.

Nope, SegWit does away with blocksize and introduces blockweight.  The base portion of the block is still 1mb, that's strictly 1000kb and not a byte more, while the new witness portion of the block, which can only be accessed by using SegWit, adds a further 3mb of usable space.  The maximum block weight is effectively up to 4mb.  Stop insisting that the average number of transactions per second suggests SegWit is not implemented, because that's a flagrant lie.  It's starting to sound like you're deliberately trying to mislead people.  SegWit is active.  No ifs, buts or maybes.  Also, prior to SegWit, there were no blocks over 1000kb.  Even if a block shows 1001kb, it definitely includes SegWit transactions.

Further to that, I have received payments in my SegWit-native bech32 address.  So I know beyond doubt that SegWit is active.

.
.HUGE.
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thesavoyard (OP)
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February 09, 2018, 08:53:32 AM
 #32

You don't know how it works. Segwit does not change block size, they dropped 2x remember? Segwit removes the signature from the wallet's private key from the block while being processed by miners and re-adds it later at the node. That means smaller data size per transaction and more transactions per block. Some miners may still be running 2mb support or it's just a mistake if they set 1mb to be 1,000 kb, because a MB is 1024 KB. But slightly larger block size does not mean Segwit, a drastic increase in transactions per second does.

Nope, SegWit does away with blocksize and introduces blockweight.  The base portion of the block is still 1mb, that's strictly 1000kb and not a byte more, while the new witness portion of the block, which can only be accessed by using SegWit, adds a further 3mb of usable space.  The maximum block weight is effectively up to 4mb.  Stop insisting that the average number of transactions per second suggests SegWit is not implemented, because that's a flagrant lie.  It's starting to sound like you're deliberately trying to mislead people.  SegWit is active.  No ifs, buts or maybes.  Also, prior to SegWit, there were no blocks over 1000kb.  Even if a block shows 1001kb, it definitely includes SegWit transactions.

Further to that, I have received payments in my SegWit-native bech32 address.  So I know beyond doubt that SegWit is active.

Ok, so let's assume you're correct. Since neither of us has a direct way to prove mining pools are running Segwit, we have to rely on observation. For you, a %5 increase in block size means Segwit is active. For me, a drop in average  number of transactions per second prove it isn't.

Quote
Stop insisting that the average number of transactions per second suggests SegWit is not implemented, because that's a flagrant lie.


So, Segwit has been implemented, yet BTC scaling has not increased? It doesn't advance your argument about the viability of Bitcoin. Proof of work is simply Gen 1, the Crypto that can do what BTC was intended probably hasn't been invented. Deflation needs to be at a much slower rate than many of the currencies out there. It needs to be competitive with Visa and Mastercard in transactions per second and power consumption. Do you honestly think, after a 2-year civil war and no significant increase in efficiency, that BTC will be the one?

 If BTC had a chance of achieving Satoshi's vision, I'd be behind it 100%.

I guess it's just a way of thinking. Some people are loyal to flags, some to the ideals that it represents. BTC like a flag is just a symbol.

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February 09, 2018, 08:58:32 AM
 #33

....
Ok, so let's assume you're correct. Since neither of us has a direct way to prove mining pools are running Segwit, we have to rely on observation. For you, a %5 increase in block size means Segwit is active. For me, a drop in average  number of transactions per second prove it isn't.
...

Wow, you just ignored the prove completely.

Quote
Here's an example of an 100% Segwit transaction https://blockchain.info/tx/c23248b87ae5f1533e62d4e5f99ac4373a209a38050ac78b1c84b8b7b8d91b1f

And to show that there are Segwit transactions going on, a link to a busy wallet address:
https://btc.com/bc1qwqdg6squsna38e46795at95yu9atm8azzmyvckulcc7kytlcckxswvvzej
thesavoyard (OP)
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February 09, 2018, 09:02:49 AM
 #34

Ignoring your grammar, it diminishes your argument. A single Segwit transaction prove a network running Segwit? Your argument is dismissed because your premise doesn't support your conclusion.

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February 09, 2018, 09:24:10 AM
 #35

Ignoring your grammar, it diminishes your argument. A single Segwit transaction prove a network running Segwit? Your argument is dismissed because your premise doesn't support your conclusion.

And again: you are missing half the post.

The second link is a very busy segwit wallet addres with segwit transactions going on in almost every block. To add: ofcourse the first transactions are unconfirmed - you have to scroll down to see the transactions which are confirmed 1 or few blocks ago.
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February 09, 2018, 09:26:46 AM
 #36

Ignoring your grammar, it diminishes your argument. A single Segwit transaction prove a network running Segwit? Your argument is dismissed because your premise doesn't support your conclusion.

And again: you are missing half the post.

The second link is a very busy segwit wallet addres with segwit transactions going on in almost every block. To add: ofcourse the first transactions are unconfirmed - you have to scroll down to see the transactions which are confirmed 1 or few blocks ago.

Thank read this post....


You don't know how it works. Segwit does not change block size, they dropped 2x remember? Segwit removes the signature from the wallet's private key from the block while being processed by miners and re-adds it later at the node. That means smaller data size per transaction and more transactions per block. Some miners may still be running 2mb support or it's just a mistake if they set 1mb to be 1,000 kb, because a MB is 1024 KB. But slightly larger block size does not mean Segwit, a drastic increase in transactions per second does.

Nope, SegWit does away with blocksize and introduces blockweight.  The base portion of the block is still 1mb, that's strictly 1000kb and not a byte more, while the new witness portion of the block, which can only be accessed by using SegWit, adds a further 3mb of usable space.  The maximum block weight is effectively up to 4mb.  Stop insisting that the average number of transactions per second suggests SegWit is not implemented, because that's a flagrant lie.  It's starting to sound like you're deliberately trying to mislead people.  SegWit is active.  No ifs, buts or maybes.  Also, prior to SegWit, there were no blocks over 1000kb.  Even if a block shows 1001kb, it definitely includes SegWit transactions.

Further to that, I have received payments in my SegWit-native bech32 address.  So I know beyond doubt that SegWit is active.

Ok, so let's assume you're correct. Since neither of us has a direct way to prove mining pools are running Segwit, we have to rely on observation. For you, a %5 increase in block size means Segwit is active. For me, a drop in average  number of transactions per second prove it isn't.

Quote
Stop insisting that the average number of transactions per second suggests SegWit is not implemented, because that's a flagrant lie.


So, Segwit has been implemented, yet BTC scaling has not increased? It doesn't advance your argument about the viability of Bitcoin. Proof of work is simply Gen 1, the Crypto that can do what BTC was intended probably hasn't been invented. Deflation needs to be at a much slower rate than many of the currencies out there. It needs to be competitive with Visa and Mastercard in transactions per second and power consumption. Do you honestly think, after a 2-year civil war and no significant increase in efficiency, that BTC will be the one?

 If BTC had a chance of achieving Satoshi's vision, I'd be behind it 100%.

I guess it's just a way of thinking. Some people are loyal to flags, some to the ideals that it represents. BTC like a flag is just a symbol.

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