If USB Block Erupters are not worth the trouble, what is?

[Professor James Moriarty]

 Sooo by that calculation , if I buy 10 of knc miners 5100$ deals, thats 51000$ and I can make 200000$ by the end of the summer?

[balanghai]

Perhaps renewable energy source is the answer. 

[desired_username]

Since AsicMiner is the only real company shipping consistently and useful products (in my opinion), I'd suggest wait for the new HW to be announced. The USB miners are now dropped to .10 BTC (if you buy in bulk, or ~.12-.15 on the group buy threads). The blades are also dropped ... the newer devices should be faster/cheaper. You might not make a ton of ROI, but atleast be enough to enter the mining game.

Or the other option is to wait for these TH devices or miners from BFL :-) And see the difficulty climbing, your paid BTC/USD not getting any returns.

It doesn't make sense. Asicminer products are obsolete and overpriced.


Buy BTC and wait.  Check your options in 12 months and buy an ASIC only if it makes sense. If you cannot secure your order with a reputable company (which doesn't exists yet) within batch 1 you are missed the bandwagon.

It's foolish to start mining now or in the next 12 months. You are already missed the 28nm technology as there are a lot of pre-orders before you.

Perhaps renewable energy source is the answer.  

Renewable energy source cost money, which will fuck your ROI. Also, there is no renewable energy source available which can support your 24/7 mining operation. Not to mention the fact that all of the current technologies require maintenance which can cause downtime and additional expenses.

 Sooo by that calculation , if I buy 10 of knc miners 5100$ deals, thats 51000$ and I can make 200000$ by the end of the summer?

No, by the time you get your order you will be happy to mine back your investment. It was and is a lot better to buy BTC from an investing perspective.

[kuusj98]

Better buy a shitton of BTC (no alts) and wait it out for a year.

Let's say you buy 10 BTC which could be worth 100 $ right now (easy numbers...) and in half a year those are worth 200 $, than you just made 1000$ profit, much easyer than sitting peanuts waiting for your BLF shit to never arrive...

[crazyates]

I'm sick of people saying to just buy and hold. I don't want to buy and hold. I want to mine. I'm not gonna buy any miners with USD. I want to take the BTC I'm earning, and buy more hardware to earn even more BTC. Power efficiency is very important, as I want to be running these things for years. And all everyone can say is "BUY BUY BUY!" Gets old after a while.

[Bitweasil]

I'm sick of people saying to just buy and hold. I don't want to buy and hold. I want to mine. I'm not gonna buy any miners with USD. I want to take the BTC I'm earning, and buy more hardware to earn even more BTC. Power efficiency is very important, as I want to be running these things for years. And all everyone can say is "BUY BUY BUY!" Gets old after a while.

As long as you accept you're irrational, go for it.

If you spend 100 btc to buy a device that returns 80 btc, eventually you run out of btc.

[BRADLEYPLOOF]

If you guys want to make ROI with your block erupters, talk to this guy here... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=293098.0 and we'll be more than happy to help you out.

[Puppet]

I want to take the BTC I'm earning, and buy more hardware to earn even more BTC.

Yeah I  would like to turn 10 BTC in to 1000 BTC by running a martingale bot on satoshidice, but simple math tells me thats about as likely to work out as making profit from preordering asics.

Here is something to consider; assume a constant BTC market cap (yes I know thats the wrong word), so no inflow of fresh fiat. All these asic companies have already earned their NRE back, probably many times over in presales and most of them will be laughing all the way to the bank, regardless what happens next. And we are not talking small change either, combined investment is in the tens of millions of dollars, combined profits for  those vendors will at least be on the same order. So where does all that profit come from? Who generates it? Its not from freshly minted coins, without 28nm asics, all those bitcoins were going to mined just as well.

Miners have spent millions of dollars in the hope of making a future profit, but the only other relevant party has already locked in its profits.  It cant be that everyone wins, not in a zero sum game. So who do you think will lose?

Now you might say existing miners, who will not see their expected ROI, like all those BFL customers. The only problem is that today's BFL miner is tomorrows KNC/Hashfast/cointerra/whatever miner, as the same story will repeat itself over and over as prices per GH will keep plummeting and difficulty keeps skyrocketing, both as a result and a cause of the price drops.

All thats left,  is counting on inflow of extra fiat. Ie, BTC exchange rate rising. IF that is were you are betting on, well the conclusion what you should do is rather obvious.

[kano]

I'm sick of people saying to just buy and hold. I don't want to buy and hold. I want to mine. I'm not gonna buy any miners with USD. I want to take the BTC I'm earning, and buy more hardware to earn even more BTC. Power efficiency is very important, as I want to be running these things for years. And all everyone can say is "BUY BUY BUY!" Gets old after a while.

The simple problem is that the network difficulty is rising fast enough to make long term mining, with current hardware, impossible.

I will also point out that by "long term" I mean 1 year. Yes the term "long term" has changed for Bitcoin in the past 6 months.

Just ignoring what is supposed to come online in the next 60 days, the last 10 difficulty changes have an average of over 20%, the last 4 an average of over 30%

If KnC succeeds and delivers 1PH - 5PH (no one seems to know what their order book adds up to) then that will represent a 100% to 500% increase in the next couple of month, so should easily continue the 30% diff changes and possibly have a very high one somewhere in the middle if they ship a lot of hardware in a 1 week period - since it would seem that shipping a lot of their hardware might simply be putting it into their own datacentre and switching it on.

Almost all ASIC hardware you can see today is priced such that you will lose BTC or only get very little BTC return above what you paid in BTC.
However, most of that pricing is also assuming little or no network increase, which is blatantly, obviously incorrect
The possible large network increases (like KnC) will ensure that beyond any doubt you will not get back your BTC outlay, if they do occur.

So indeed it would appear that buying BTC is the least risk option at the moment - or more correctly, almost certain to lose you less BTC - since almost no mining equipment will gain you BTC above the BTC you pay for it, and all mining equipment will delay that return for many months and cost you some amount of money to run it for many months.

[EzCheese]

You got that right.  Everything I'm pricing, everyone wants waaaaay too much money and too much time needed for ROI without diff increase to be accounted for.  I guess folks are banking on BTC hitting 200 bucks again and hoping it will ROI in time. 

I'm sick of people saying to just buy and hold. I don't want to buy and hold. I want to mine. I'm not gonna buy any miners with USD. I want to take the BTC I'm earning, and buy more hardware to earn even more BTC. Power efficiency is very important, as I want to be running these things for years. And all everyone can say is "BUY BUY BUY!" Gets old after a while.

The simple problem is that the network difficulty is rising fast enough to make long term mining, with current hardware, impossible.

I will also point out that by "long term" I mean 1 year. Yes the term "long term" has changed for Bitcoin in the past 6 months.

Just ignoring what is supposed to come online in the next 60 days, the last 10 difficulty changes have an average of over 20%, the last 4 an average of over 30%

If KnC succeeds and delivers 1PH - 5PH (no one seems to know what their order book adds up to) then that will represent a 100% to 500% increase in the next couple of month, so should easily continue the 30% diff changes and possibly have a very high one somewhere in the middle if they ship a lot of hardware in a 1 week period - since it would seem that shipping a lot of their hardware might simply be putting it into their own datacentre and switching it on.

Almost all ASIC hardware you can see today is priced such that you will lose BTC or only get very little BTC return above what you paid in BTC.
However, most of that pricing is also assuming little or no network increase, which is blatantly, obviously incorrect
The possible large network increases (like KnC) will ensure that beyond any doubt you will not get back your BTC outlay, if they do occur.

So indeed it would appear that buying BTC is the least risk option at the moment - or more correctly, almost certain to lose you less BTC - since almost no mining equipment will gain you BTC above the BTC you pay for it, and all mining equipment will delay that return for many months and cost you some amount of money to run it for many months.

[jeppe]

BTC mining is not worth it anymore but if u have cheap power mining coins like LTC with GPUs would stile be profitable and u do not have a risk as large as asics as you can sell the GPUs to a gamer later but asics are worthless when diff goes up too much.