Anyone skillfull enough to track this through to some meaningful info?

[dogie]

tldr: got scammed by surpbitcoin on these forums for 8 btc back in June - he then abandoned the account. I thought I'd wait a while before posting to see where exactly the coins end up.

This was the transaction, sent to 1AcuVNnyKQNFZtqxQZ4CEZW7CuCGzgUVVv
https://blockchain.info/tx/467f0277758cc3cd6a9df62ef57bf1cc161e61ec50f5dfeb637d5ab6ede6e6db

Now I don't understand enough technical info regarding what exactly blockchain is trying to tell me so need some help. I've clicked through to where the final 'resting place' of the coins seems to be and it appears to be the silkroad seized coins.

Do you think that means the coins ended up being used for drugs? Although I could be totally misinterpreting it. Maybe the FBI could be of help (I'm in the UK).



Thoughts, ideas, findings?

Cheers

[Tirapon]

If you followed the coins to that address, they must have ended up going to SR before it was seized. So yeah, the coins were probably spent on drugs.

[smeagol]

tldr: got scammed by surpbitcoin on these forums for 8 btc back in June - he then abandoned the account. I thought I'd wait a while before posting to see where exactly the coins end up.

This was the transaction, sent to 1AcuVNnyKQNFZtqxQZ4CEZW7CuCGzgUVVv
https://blockchain.info/tx/467f0277758cc3cd6a9df62ef57bf1cc161e61ec50f5dfeb637d5ab6ede6e6db

Now I don't understand enough technical info regarding what exactly blockchain is trying to tell me so need some help. I've clicked through to where the final 'resting place' of the coins seems to be and it appears to be the silkroad seized coins.

Do you think that means the coins ended up being used for drugs? Although I could be totally misinterpreting it. Maybe the FBI could be of help (I'm in the UK).



Thoughts, ideas, findings?

Cheers

The coins were seized by the FBI

[dogie]

tldr: got scammed by surpbitcoin on these forums for 8 btc back in June - he then abandoned the account. I thought I'd wait a while before posting to see where exactly the coins end up.

This was the transaction, sent to 1AcuVNnyKQNFZtqxQZ4CEZW7CuCGzgUVVv
https://blockchain.info/tx/467f0277758cc3cd6a9df62ef57bf1cc161e61ec50f5dfeb637d5ab6ede6e6db

Now I don't understand enough technical info regarding what exactly blockchain is trying to tell me so need some help. I've clicked through to where the final 'resting place' of the coins seems to be and it appears to be the silkroad seized coins.

Do you think that means the coins ended up being used for drugs? Although I could be totally misinterpreting it. Maybe the FBI could be of help (I'm in the UK).



Thoughts, ideas, findings?

Cheers

The coins were seized by the FBI

Did you follow the chain as well? I guess that's a good thing, maybe I could talk to them.

[dogie]

If you followed the coins to that address, they must have ended up going to SR before it was seized. So yeah, the coins were probably spent on drugs.

I was blindly clicking, pressing the top address each time. I don't understand how sending one glob of coins to one address actually sends it to or from multiple addresses?

[Tirapon]

I'm not sure, I think it can be tricky to track coins through the blockchain. I'm no expert though, I'm sure it can be done by someone who knows what they're doing. But it's not always clear which coins have gone where, due to 'change addresses' - one of the things implemented in the code which I didn't understand at first, but now it makes more sense: using change addresses by default helps to obscure transaction history.

[dogie]

I'm not sure, I think it can be tricky to track coins through the blockchain. I'm no expert though, I'm sure it can be done by someone who knows what they're doing. But it's not always clear which coins have gone where, due to 'change addresses' - one of the things implemented in the code which I didn't understand at first, but now it makes more sense: using change addresses by default helps to obscure transaction history.

Yeah, which is why I was hoping someone 'fluent' would pop in

[Tirapon]

I don't understand how sending one glob of coins to one address actually sends it to or from multiple addresses?

Okay, so transactions consist of inputs and outputs. Say I want to send 10 BTC - I have two addresses in my wallet, one with a balance of 6 BTC and one with a balance of 9 BTC - Both balances will be used, to create a total input of 15 BTC. 10 BTC goes to the address that I'm sending to, and 5 BTC goes back to a 'change address', which is another address in my wallet which I control. (minus the transaction fee, which goes to the miners). This is why you see coins being sent to and from multiple addresses at once. It also makes it difficult to determine exactly which coins were sent where.

blockchain.info has a 'shared send' feature, which allows multiple users to combine inputs from their various addresses, and send to each of their desired output destinations. This makes it impossible to determine which input was destined for which output, effectively mixing the coins.

It looks to me like the thief may have been using this shared send feature to obscure the path of the coins through the blockchain. It is also quite likely that somewhere along the chain of shared transactions, somebody using the shared send feature may have been sending coins to SR, making it very likely that you would eventually end up at the seized coins address (which you did)

I'm afraid its very unlikely that the FBI, or anyone else, would have the time or resources to be tracking every transaction since the coins were stolen, especially for such a small amount (yes, 8 BTC is a lot of money to an individual, and I'm sorry for OP's loss, but in the grand scheme of things its pocket change. I imagine the cost of tracking it down would be much more than 8 BTC/$2500)

[dogie]

I don't understand how sending one glob of coins to one address actually sends it to or from multiple addresses?

I'm afraid its very unlikely that the FBI, or anyone else, would have the time or resources to be tracking every transaction since the coins were stolen, especially for such a small amount (yes, 8 BTC is a lot of money to an individual, and I'm sorry for OP's loss, but in the grand scheme of things its pocket change. I imagine the cost of tracking it down would be much more than 8 BTC/$2500)

Surely 'tracking it down' would simply consist of a string of transactions that end up in SR seized funds? Like a stolen watch, those bitcoins should still be my property and should be reclaimable? #bitcoinlawyerwhereareyou

[Tirapon]

I don't understand how sending one glob of coins to one address actually sends it to or from multiple addresses?

I'm afraid its very unlikely that the FBI, or anyone else, would have the time or resources to be tracking every transaction since the coins were stolen, especially for such a small amount (yes, 8 BTC is a lot of money to an individual, and I'm sorry for OP's loss, but in the grand scheme of things its pocket change. I imagine the cost of tracking it down would be much more than 8 BTC/$2500)

Surely 'tracking it down' would simply consist of a string of transactions that end up in SR seized funds? Like a stolen watch, those bitcoins should still be my property and should be reclaimable? #bitcoinlawyerwhereareyou

The problem is, it will be difficult or impossible to prove exactly which coins were yours that were stolen. There's no way of knowing exactly what happened to the coins after they were stolen - maybe the thief sold them for cash on localbitcoins? Would it then be fair to go to the buyer and ask for the coins back, so that they end up taking the loss? This is different for stolen property, where you can definitively say 'this is my stolen watch, and still belongs to me'. Bitcoin is designed as a fungible currency (all bitcoins are interchangeable with one another). What you're suggesting is the equivalent of going to the bank and saying, 'someone stole my wallet last week with £100 in it, please give me £100 because I believe the thief deposited the money here'.

[dogie]

I don't understand how sending one glob of coins to one address actually sends it to or from multiple addresses?

I'm afraid its very unlikely that the FBI, or anyone else, would have the time or resources to be tracking every transaction since the coins were stolen, especially for such a small amount (yes, 8 BTC is a lot of money to an individual, and I'm sorry for OP's loss, but in the grand scheme of things its pocket change. I imagine the cost of tracking it down would be much more than 8 BTC/$2500)

Surely 'tracking it down' would simply consist of a string of transactions that end up in SR seized funds? Like a stolen watch, those bitcoins should still be my property and should be reclaimable? #bitcoinlawyerwhereareyou

The problem is, it will be difficult or impossible to prove exactly which coins were yours that were stolen. There's no way of knowing exactly what happened to the coins after they were stolen - maybe the thief sold them for cash on localbitcoins? Would it then be fair to go to the buyer and ask for the coins back, so that they end up taking the loss? This is different for stolen property, where you can definitively say 'this is my stolen watch, and still belongs to me'. Bitcoin is designed as a fungible currency (all bitcoins are interchangeable with one another). What you're suggesting is the equivalent of going to the bank and saying, 'someone stole my wallet last week with £100 in it, please give me £100 because I believe the thief deposited the money here'.

Its a topic for debate I guess. In the UK they're considered face value cash vouchers - but not cash. Interesting, interesting.