Future of Bitcoin is in Danger among 1.25 Billion people.

[sunildhillon]

I'm an Indian Bitcoin trader (https://localbitcoins.com/p/sunildhillon) skeptical about the future of Bitcoin in my country.
From the day 8 Nov 2016.(Two biggest denomination[500INR,1000INR Bills] govt. notes cease to legal tender in the country)   The price of Bitcoin in India rose by nearly 23% whereas international market grew today only and that too by only  4%.

The price Bitcoin in rising India is mainly due to "High demand and less supply" , and is expected to follow the trend for coming 40-45 days more and may generate price difference of 100% from the international market by the end of the term.
 
This has left me with several questions.

How does bitcoin infuse into a new country?

Do we need to start that process again for India?

Who are the player(s) who can balance the skewed market?

Bitcoin is for Illegal market only?

How long can it take for such skewed market to get back to normal even when power player gets into the action as early as today?
 
India is the 2nd largest populated country having nearly 25 trillion $ cash in circulation. It can't be left behind by the Bitcoin community.

There is no way I can send money to unknown individual abroad. You have followed full banking procedure that can take up to 7 business days to send one transaction. And there are strict limits to the amount I can send.

India is having lots of bitcoins into it, but probably not enough to meet the "requirement of the country" and are now probably going to the hands of people who were holding unaccounted cash by now. 

[franky1]

just checked out other indian sellars on local bitcoins

then checked out more centralized exchanges
localbitcoins seems to be at ~59,000
centralized exchanges ~56,000
your own listing ~60,300

seems its only you that is the highest, and your complaining about how high it is..
maybe connect to the centralized exchanges buy some at 56,000-57,000 and sell at 56,900-57,900 for a 1% profit(after cost).
instead of 60,300 which is a 7-8% profit

then based on international trends. the price would appear as only a 15% rise instead of a 23% rise.
you could also go deper into the arbitrage game and see if you can get more then $740 for less than 56,000INR and be able to get more btc, for less.
and if you stick to a 1% profit you can become an even better offer to people at even less than the 15% method i first suggested or the 23% your currently offering


but i have a question for you. totally separate from the exchange rate..
i want your opinion on the utility of bitcoin in india

knowing using.. yes, just using bitcoin is an 7cent(american) 4.76(INR) tx fee
do you see that nearly 5INR per transaction seems more then just annoying to spend?

would you think that going higher then 5INR per use can lead to bigger barriers of use, than any temporary price drama of exchanges.
EG would you use bitcoin to buy an apple from one grocery store, a drink from another grocery store and pay lets say 3 hours lablour to buy some clothes in another store. if it cost you 5INR per transactions.

i genuinely am interested in the reply to your opinion about the 5INR tx fee

[sunildhillon]

1. I'm not here to complain about the high prices. Regarding the price. The centralized exchange rate is lowest is at btcxindia nearly 856$ to 874$ for unocoin. Ranges from 17-20%. But the point is not whether it's 15% or 23% or 17-20%. The point was ever increasing skewness.

A thing to note is why would I use Bitcoin for making payments outside India. Paypal seems better now for the real use than Bitcoin. (Payments across cross borders)

Yes, for everyday use (according to Indian common men's mindset) fee's greater than INR 5 can restrict it's use case in many micropayments like buying apples or other small items. However for Bigger payments like more than 5000 INR. People can use it. The point is people will avoid it if the fees would account for like 1% of the transaction. (Only for day-to-day use). For remittance, 1% is not big. For general purpose, people will be comfortable with 0.1-0.3% as tx fees. 

[Doamader]

Well the only thing i do know is that India doesnt allow gambling, and the most people are buying bitcoins with that purpose, soo you must find some place were you can buy bitcoins, maybe travel to other country buy bitcoins and then sell them, i dont know how expensive it may be but looks insane prices fluctuating such in one single day.

[sunildhillon]

Well the only thing i do know is that India doesn't allow gambling, and the most people are buying bitcoins with that purpose, soo you must find some place were you can buy bitcoins, maybe travel to other country buy bitcoins and then sell them, i dont know how expensive it may be but looks insane prices fluctuating such in one single day.

You are right about the fact that India doesn't allow gambling. Most people are buying Bitcoins with that purpose: I Highly doubt that statement. People having unaccounted cash are the core individuals who are buying lots of Bitcoin today. I think I need to dig deep into travelling to some other country and trying to establish a channel for the same in a legal way.

[hua_hui]

I'm an Indian Bitcoin trader (https://localbitcoins.com/p/sunildhillon) skeptical about the future of Bitcoin in my country.
From the day 8 Nov 2016.(Two biggest denomination[500INR,1000INR Bills] govt. notes cease to legal tender in the country)   The price of Bitcoin in India rose by nearly 23% whereas international market grew today only and that too by only  4%.

The price Bitcoin in rising India is mainly due to "High demand and less supply" , and is expected to follow the trend for coming 40-45 days more and may generate price difference of 100% from the international market by the end of the term.
 
This has left me with several questions.

How does bitcoin infuse into a new country?
Do we need to start that process again for India?
Who are the player(s) who can balance the skewed market?
Bitcoin is for Illegal market only?
How long can it take for such skewed market to get back to normal even when power player gets into action as early as today.
 
India is the 2nd largest populated country having nearly 25 trillion $ cash in circulation. It can be left behind by the Bitcoin community.

There is no way I can send money to unknown individual abroad. You have followed full banking procedure that can take up to 7 business days to send one transaction. And there are strict limits to the amount I can send.

India is having lots of bitcoins into it, but probably not enough to meet the "requirement of the country" and are now probably going to the hands of people who were holding unaccounted cash by now.  

I have seen this case before in digital goods. In dota/cs go, we treat keys as the currency for trade. And there can be a quite a diff in price for the common market and within their own country market. Due to language barriers and some other restriction, there are dealers who can take in hundred of keys everyday and then resell to their country mates at a profit.

[Meuh6879]

Time to use real tool ...



@Kraken.

[shinratensei_]

Well the only thing i do know is that India doesn't allow gambling, and the most people are buying bitcoins with that purpose, soo you must find some place were you can buy bitcoins, maybe travel to other country buy bitcoins and then sell them, i dont know how expensive it may be but looks insane prices fluctuating such in one single day.

. I think I need to dig deep into travelling to some other country and trying to establish a channel for the same in a legal way.

Nope, You already do it. Even, this makes no sense for me. Are they never trying for use the foreign exchange for buy some?According to your sentences, it looks like it so complicated for does it. How about zebpay? I don't think if you are never heard about them.

[MingLee]

Bitcoin enters a new country through interest and vendors giving people an incentive. For a lot of the first-world, it has been based around interest, and not vendors.

If you want India to have Bitcoin in India, give them a reason to use it. If they can get computers, they can make money using it. Considering the amount of money I have read people in India make, a signature campaign would be a huge benefit to many.

The "players" are the people. Get the volume split among whoever you can and then it will get better. The top will always have a lot, but the bottom can get it too.

Bitcoin is not just for illegal markets. If there is a buyer there is a seller.

Getting a skewed market to be "fixed" can take a long time. Trickle-down economics, essentially. Which has a mixed track record.

[franky1]

as for his other questions about bitcoin utility.
he mentions bitcoin is worthless for buying real produce/ day to day spending.

but strangely says remittance is expensive
if trying to put indian rupee in, to get dollars out.. id agree
BUT when thats the case.... the opposite is true the other way round
its better for dollar in and rupee out

lets take someone working in america wanting to send $100 to his families homeland in india
forex says that dollar<->INR is $100<->₹6795
lets see if we can better that and get the indian family more then 6795 rupee

first having $100
1.a)converting it to bitcoin, lets take the cheapest $739/btc
using ACH bank account 1.8% (1.5% deposit and orderbook 0.3% swap)
$100=0.132882273
(other exchanges have cheaper orderbook fees but higher wire deposit fee EG krakens US$ deposit is $5 and higher spreads too)
1.b)converting it to bitcoin, lets take the krakens $745/btc
using ACH bank account $5 +0.42%
$100=0.12698121

next sending that to someone in india becomes
2.a)0.13278227 standard tx fee
2.b)0.12688121 standard tx fee

3.a) hoping that the receivers of 0.13278227 is the highest indian exchange rate of 60,300 the recipient gets 8006.77 INR
lets say its not. and instead the exchange rate was 56,000 gets 7435.81 INR
3.b) hoping that the receivers of 0.12688121 is the highest indian exchange rate of 60,300 the recipient gets 7656.97 INR
lets say its not. and instead the exchange rate was 56,000 gets 7110.95 INR


an $ to ₹ via btc gets you ₹7110-₹8006 yet forex says they should only get ₹6795

but yes other way round ₹6795($100 forex value) wont get you anywhere near $100 via bitcoin
but then you can always trade rupee for dollar and then buy bitcoin. rather the rupee->bitcoin direct
and ofcourse because you can make a profit. you can sell that bitcoin for rupee and repeat the process until the price settles down due to arbitrage (india gains more supply)

eg
receives ₹7110 to then forex exchange for $104
buy bitcoin with $104  -> ₹7390
receives ₹7390 to then forex exchange for $108
buy bitcoin with $108  -> ₹7670

[~Bitcoin~]

Actually what forcing people to buy at high rate is limited supply of bitcoin in India as there are not many traders as well as not any mining farms that can generate bitcoin and supply to market. Also due to tight foreign currency law, people can't send their local currency to foreign banks or can't deposit higher amount in international trading platforms to buy at market rate. There is monopoly on price of bitcoin in India and in majority of countries where government strictly prohibit transfer of currency outside country.

[BitcoinBarrel]

Bitcoin is used for illegal purposes just like everything on earth is used for illegal purposes in one way or another. Bitcoin is transparent and fair, and puts the people in charge of their finances. The free market decides what the value is and no central organization controls it. If someone wants to break the law, they can do that with cars, guns, cash, electronics, etc....

With fiat currencies, no one knows how much is made or how much is available. Or even where it all comes from.

Every Bitcoin is accounted for.

[bitllionaire]

Well the only thing i do know is that India doesn't allow gambling, and the most people are buying bitcoins with that purpose, soo you must find some place were you can buy bitcoins, maybe travel to other country buy bitcoins and then sell them, i dont know how expensive it may be but looks insane prices fluctuating such in one single day.

You are right about the fact that India doesn't allow gambling. Most people are buying Bitcoins with that purpose: I Highly doubt that statement. People having unaccounted cash are the core individuals who are buying lots of Bitcoin today. I think I need to dig deep into travelling to some other country and trying to establish a channel for the same in a legal way.

as i have some friends from India and they regularly play gambling very openly, then how is it not allowed in India. and the second is that Bitcoin is not only using in India as it is a decentralized global currency of the world, it is in most fo the countries of the world and majority of the people are using it for investment purposes, as they consider bitcoin as one of the most safe and profitable investment.

[tokyopotato]

Actually what forcing people to buy at high rate is limited supply of bitcoin in India as there are not many traders as well as not any mining farms that can generate bitcoin and supply to market. Also due to tight foreign currency law, people can't send their local currency to foreign banks or can't deposit higher amount in international trading platforms to buy at market rate. There is monopoly on price of bitcoin in India and in majority of countries where government strictly prohibit transfer of currency outside country.

Yep.

OP needs to checkout ZebPay.com and Unocoin.com

Alternatively, locate an acquaintance in another country who can send you BTC.

[Kakmakr]

You need to consider why people are running to Bitcoin now, and the trigger for that is the fiat "currency" problems they are faced with now. So they need to protect their wealth < legal & illegal > Yes, PayPal might be a more acceptable payment option at the moment, but it is a centralized service and a Honey pot for info for governments.

A centralized service can block your account and seize your money, whenever they want to. This cannot be done with Bitcoin. < If you are the only one that has access to your private key >

If I was in the same situation and they wanted to "ban" higher currencies, I would have opted for Bitcoin too.

[Mzie]

I think this is because there is a large demand for Bitcoin in India after the fiat money issues. So for all those who are familiar with bitcoin and use it, they go to the local market , like on localbitcoins. the traders there hike up the price because of the demand.

[QuestionAuthority]

Sounds like a great arbitrage opportunity.