What happens when bitcoins are lost?

[mjc]

Maybe when the mining gets to hard and unrewarding the network would turn its resources into cracking these old dormant wallets. Sort of like a treasure hunt and a incentive to remain opperational and keep the network alive.! :-)

But I guess it will take eons to crack even at future speeds. 

Eons is right my friend.

If they could be cracked then the security of Bitcoin is dead and so is Bitcoin.

If you consider the magnitude of the problem at hand:

32 positions in the key * 58 characters (Base 58) divided by the number of people on the planet like 7 Billion =  2.8 x 10^77 keys per person.

This implies that there is likely to never be collision of keys and it also signals to the magnitude of reversing any one key.

Bruce Schneider explains much of the math in an easy to understand (Should you want to learn) manner, in his book Applied Cryptography.  

I imagine if anyone figured out how much energy it took to flip the bit in a modern computer to try executing the algorithm for one computation attempt, and then figured out how many computational attempts it would take on average to crack one key, they might find that they would need to wrap the sun and capture all the energy from it to power enough computers and that it would still take a billion years to solve.  That is likely the magnitude we're talking here.  Now I might be off, somewhere in my assessment, but I think you get the idea of the scale of the problem to reverse public key cryptography.

That said the only alternative is to find a flat in the algorithm used by Bitcoin, then you might get to the anwser faster.  However in doing that you will undermine the trust of the system and the found coins will forever by valueless.

[Harley997]

they sit in the address forever

...or until brute forced / sha256 encryption broken 

[stompix]

Maybe when the mining gets to hard and unrewarding the network would turn its resources into cracking these old dormant wallets. Sort of like a treasure hunt and a incentive to remain opperational and keep the network alive.! :-)

But I guess it will take eons to crack even at future speeds.  

Eons is right my friend.

If they could be cracked then the security of Bitcoin is dead and so is Bitcoin.

If you consider the magnitude of the problem at hand:

32 positions in the key * 58 characters (Base 58) divided by the number of people on the planet like 7 Billion =  2.8 x 10^77 keys per person.

This implies that there is likely to never be collision of keys and it also signals to the magnitude of reversing any one key.

Bruce Schneider explains much of the math in an easy to understand (Should you want to learn) manner, in his book Applied Cryptography.  

I imagine if anyone figured out how much energy it took to flip the bit in a modern computer to try executing the algorithm for one computation attempt, and then figured out how many computational attempts it would take on average to crack one key, they might find that they would need to wrap the sun and capture all the energy from it to power enough computers and that it would still take a billion years to solve.  That is likely the magnitude we're talking here.  Now I might be off, somewhere in my assessment, but I think you get the idea of the scale of the problem to reverse public key cryptography.

That said the only alternative is to find a flat in the algorithm used by Bitcoin, then you might get to the anwser faster.  However in doing that you will undermine the trust of the system and the found coins will forever by valueless.

This reminds me of a book where people debated if that was a true diamond or a fake one.
They've knew that a true diamond can burn so they threw it in a fire. .

What's the point of cracking the pkey of an address since it turns all the bitcoins useless.

[bigfoot6696]

that guys HDD is under like 30 feet of garbage im sure its obliterated by the massive compactors rolling over it 10k times a week once they are gone they are gone back up all your information move amounts to paper wallet leave a few to play with and put it in a safe deposit box....

[SomeRandomDude]

I am more thrilled what might happen to the DPR wallet, since the whole world can take a look at it and even put payments into that wallet.
I am pretty sure that some skilled hackers will get their hands on the Bitcoin sitting in that wallet and make worldwide news with this.
 
Somehow I have a feeling that it's already a big target from hackers around the world.
 
This was a bit Off Topic. If it happens, I told you so!  
 
OnTopic: It's pretty sad that people lose coins because of not knowing how to properly protect their coins. I really really hope that there are coming more and more userfriendly solutions for this.
For example: People from an older generation that have a hard time understanding how to fully set up their privacy settings for Facebook and still want to get some Bitcoin - these people need a real easy to use solution. There are custom Ubuntu boot CDs that come with paper wallet generators and stuff like that. But that's still too complicated for the non-tech-people. Someone needs to put up a kickstarter to give them like a small piece of hardware which only produces wallets 100% offline and can be used for spending coins of specific wallets with a WiFi connection if needed. Something that has the size of a Tamagotchi, small, just does what it should and that's it.
I really hope this happens some time.
 
Losing coins is a really sad thing. Once they are gone - you can't get them back.
If you send them to the wrong address, you may have a small chance to get them back. Most people copy/paste wallet addresses from somewhere else (like a donation address) and can contact these wallet holders. Saw some people in the past that did researches and had luck because of the honesty of these people.
 
If you get your Bitcoin stolen by a hacker, there is only 1 good news: Since the blockchain is public you can chase your coins for ever. Some users also did this in the past.
If the hacker/thief is dumb enough to spends them to pay for services, you maybe can track that down and meet that guy in person. This involves some social engineering and may be far from legal but could be the only way because police won't get anything. Imagine what happens when someone finds a Bitcoin thief that has stolen coins from a whole community. This might be sad but: I am sure that there will be news headlines in the future that people will get killed because of this.
(Which indicates that this Bitcoin stuff is getting more and more serious. It's no more a few monopoly moneys you are holding - it is real money.)

[stompix]

I am more thrilled what might happen to the DPR wallet, since the whole world can take a look at it and even put payments into that wallet.
I am pretty sure that some skilled hackers will get their hands on the Bitcoin sitting in that wallet and make worldwide news with this.
 
Somehow I have a feeling that it's already a big target from hackers around the world.
 
This was a bit Off Topic. If it happens, I told you so!  
 
OnTopic: It's pretty sad that people lose coins because of not knowing how to properly protect their coins. I really really hope that there are coming more and more userfriendly solutions for this.
For example: People from an older generation that have a hard time understanding how to fully set up their privacy settings for Facebook and still want to get some Bitcoin - these people need a real easy to use solution. There are custom Ubuntu boot CDs that come with paper wallet generators and stuff like that. But that's still too complicated for the non-tech-people. Someone needs to put up a kickstarter to give them like a small piece of hardware which only produces wallets 100% offline and can be used for spending coins of specific wallets with a WiFi connection if needed.
I really hope this happens some time.
 
Losing coins is a really sad thing. Once they are gone - you can't get them back.
If you send them to the wrong address, you may have a small chance to get them back. Most people copy/paste wallet addresses from somewhere else (like a donation address) and can contact these wallet holders. Saw some people in the past that did researches and had luck because of the honesty of these people.
 
If you get your Bitcoin stolen by a hacker, there is only 1 good news: Since the blockchain is public you can chase your coins for ever. Some users also did this in the past.
If the hacker/thief is dumb enough to spends them to pay for services, you maybe can track that down and meet that guy in person. Imagine what happens when someone finds a Bitcoin thief that has stolen coins from a whole community. This might be sad but: I am sure that there will be news headlines in the future that people will get killed because of this.
(Which indicates that this Bitcoin stuff is getting more and more serious. It's no more a few monopoly moneys you are holding - it is real money.)

Are pretty sure about his?
Cause there are a lot of people that don't think this is possible , and have arguments for it.
How do you see that "hack" actually taking place?

[SomeRandomDude]

I am more thrilled what might happen to the DPR wallet, since the whole world can take a look at it and even put payments into that wallet.
I am pretty sure that some skilled hackers will get their hands on the Bitcoin sitting in that wallet and make worldwide news with this.
 
Somehow I have a feeling that it's already a big target from hackers around the world.
 
This was a bit Off Topic. If it happens, I told you so!  
 
OnTopic: It's pretty sad that people lose coins because of not knowing how to properly protect their coins. I really really hope that there are coming more and more userfriendly solutions for this.
For example: People from an older generation that have a hard time understanding how to fully set up their privacy settings for Facebook and still want to get some Bitcoin - these people need a real easy to use solution. There are custom Ubuntu boot CDs that come with paper wallet generators and stuff like that. But that's still too complicated for the non-tech-people. Someone needs to put up a kickstarter to give them like a small piece of hardware which only produces wallets 100% offline and can be used for spending coins of specific wallets with a WiFi connection if needed.
I really hope this happens some time.
 
Losing coins is a really sad thing. Once they are gone - you can't get them back.
If you send them to the wrong address, you may have a small chance to get them back. Most people copy/paste wallet addresses from somewhere else (like a donation address) and can contact these wallet holders. Saw some people in the past that did researches and had luck because of the honesty of these people.
 
If you get your Bitcoin stolen by a hacker, there is only 1 good news: Since the blockchain is public you can chase your coins for ever. Some users also did this in the past.
If the hacker/thief is dumb enough to spends them to pay for services, you maybe can track that down and meet that guy in person. Imagine what happens when someone finds a Bitcoin thief that has stolen coins from a whole community. This might be sad but: I am sure that there will be news headlines in the future that people will get killed because of this.
(Which indicates that this Bitcoin stuff is getting more and more serious. It's no more a few monopoly moneys you are holding - it is real money.)

Are pretty sure about his?
Cause there are a lot of people that don't think this is possible , and have arguments for it.
How do you see that "hack" actually taking place?

Nobody knows when these coins get sold. Maybe they are going to sit there for some 3-5 years or something like that.
We are very close to the quantum computing age and this might open many new possibilities for "cracking" (or bruteforce or whatever you like).
I don't really have the knowledge at all when it comes to cryptography. But I really think this is going to happen. Sooner or later. Even if it takes 10 years.
 
/Edit: I apply the well known rule: What's made by human hand can be cracked by human hand. Even if it takes to infiltrate the temporary holder of the wallet.
I am not going to do a research now if somebody managed it in the past to infiltrate FBI & others. But why shouldn't that be possible.

/Edit2: Now this thread is so much going to be on some watch list.

[stompix]

I am more thrilled what might happen to the DPR wallet, since the whole world can take a look at it and even put payments into that wallet.
I am pretty sure that some skilled hackers will get their hands on the Bitcoin sitting in that wallet and make worldwide news with this.
 
Somehow I have a feeling that it's already a big target from hackers around the world.
 
This was a bit Off Topic. If it happens, I told you so!  
 
OnTopic: It's pretty sad that people lose coins because of not knowing how to properly protect their coins. I really really hope that there are coming more and more userfriendly solutions for this.
For example: People from an older generation that have a hard time understanding how to fully set up their privacy settings for Facebook and still want to get some Bitcoin - these people need a real easy to use solution. There are custom Ubuntu boot CDs that come with paper wallet generators and stuff like that. But that's still too complicated for the non-tech-people. Someone needs to put up a kickstarter to give them like a small piece of hardware which only produces wallets 100% offline and can be used for spending coins of specific wallets with a WiFi connection if needed.
I really hope this happens some time.
 
Losing coins is a really sad thing. Once they are gone - you can't get them back.
If you send them to the wrong address, you may have a small chance to get them back. Most people copy/paste wallet addresses from somewhere else (like a donation address) and can contact these wallet holders. Saw some people in the past that did researches and had luck because of the honesty of these people.
 
If you get your Bitcoin stolen by a hacker, there is only 1 good news: Since the blockchain is public you can chase your coins for ever. Some users also did this in the past.
If the hacker/thief is dumb enough to spends them to pay for services, you maybe can track that down and meet that guy in person. Imagine what happens when someone finds a Bitcoin thief that has stolen coins from a whole community. This might be sad but: I am sure that there will be news headlines in the future that people will get killed because of this.
(Which indicates that this Bitcoin stuff is getting more and more serious. It's no more a few monopoly moneys you are holding - it is real money.)

Are pretty sure about his?
Cause there are a lot of people that don't think this is possible , and have arguments for it.
How do you see that "hack" actually taking place?

Nobody knows when these coins get sold. Maybe they are going to sit there for some 3-5 years or something like that.
We are very close to the quantum computing age and this might open many new possibilities for cracking.
I don't really have the knowledge at all when it comes to cryptography. But I really think this is going to happen. Sooner or later. Even if it takes 10 years.

So you acknowledge not knowing too much about it  , but you're pretty sure it can be done. This is a bit hilarious

[SomeRandomDude]

I am more thrilled what might happen to the DPR wallet, since the whole world can take a look at it and even put payments into that wallet.
I am pretty sure that some skilled hackers will get their hands on the Bitcoin sitting in that wallet and make worldwide news with this.
 
Somehow I have a feeling that it's already a big target from hackers around the world.
 
This was a bit Off Topic. If it happens, I told you so!  
 
OnTopic: It's pretty sad that people lose coins because of not knowing how to properly protect their coins. I really really hope that there are coming more and more userfriendly solutions for this.
For example: People from an older generation that have a hard time understanding how to fully set up their privacy settings for Facebook and still want to get some Bitcoin - these people need a real easy to use solution. There are custom Ubuntu boot CDs that come with paper wallet generators and stuff like that. But that's still too complicated for the non-tech-people. Someone needs to put up a kickstarter to give them like a small piece of hardware which only produces wallets 100% offline and can be used for spending coins of specific wallets with a WiFi connection if needed.
I really hope this happens some time.
 
Losing coins is a really sad thing. Once they are gone - you can't get them back.
If you send them to the wrong address, you may have a small chance to get them back. Most people copy/paste wallet addresses from somewhere else (like a donation address) and can contact these wallet holders. Saw some people in the past that did researches and had luck because of the honesty of these people.
 
If you get your Bitcoin stolen by a hacker, there is only 1 good news: Since the blockchain is public you can chase your coins for ever. Some users also did this in the past.
If the hacker/thief is dumb enough to spends them to pay for services, you maybe can track that down and meet that guy in person. Imagine what happens when someone finds a Bitcoin thief that has stolen coins from a whole community. This might be sad but: I am sure that there will be news headlines in the future that people will get killed because of this.
(Which indicates that this Bitcoin stuff is getting more and more serious. It's no more a few monopoly moneys you are holding - it is real money.)

Are pretty sure about his?
Cause there are a lot of people that don't think this is possible , and have arguments for it.
How do you see that "hack" actually taking place?

Nobody knows when these coins get sold. Maybe they are going to sit there for some 3-5 years or something like that.
We are very close to the quantum computing age and this might open many new possibilities for cracking.
I don't really have the knowledge at all when it comes to cryptography. But I really think this is going to happen. Sooner or later. Even if it takes 10 years.

So you acknowledge not knowing too much about it  , but you're pretty sure it can be done. This is a bit hilarious

As I said, it's just a feeling. Just wanted to make that clear. You may call it hilarious if you like, sure. But I think I still have the right to post a public bet on something that might happen.
Anyway, see my edit on my post above. I am talking about a timeframe where TrueCrypt is going to be useless.
1999 I was thrilled by what was possible with a computer and things are evolving a bit quick. Nobody really knows when these times are coming, but don't call it impossible. This isn't something that's made by God.

/Edit: I know I have cant prove my theory that's made out of nearly nothing. But one security hole or a stupid move may get someone a small timeframe to get access to these coins.

[Shaggy2013]

they are not lost they are forgotten.


look at it this way you have 100k in gold and you stored it in a place no-one can find, like lost treasure but this treasure can't be found by seekers.

people can come along and call it thiers if they spend more power and time a computer can do the forsean future of well end of universe as anyone knows it.....

so yes people toss it away in theory it is lost forever just like time and work in real world life....

but luckily each bitcoin mined can be divided so even though there is loss there is value, just like anything.

anyway that's how I understand it all, correct me if I am wrong.

[stromma44]

Nobody knows when these coins get sold. Maybe they are going to sit there for some 3-5 years or something like that.
We are very close to the quantum computing age and this might open many new possibilities for "cracking" (or bruteforce or whatever you like).
I don't really have the knowledge at all when it comes to cryptography. But I really think this is going to happen. Sooner or later. Even if it takes 10 years.
 
/Edit: I apply the well known rule: What's made by human hand can be cracked by human hand. Even if it takes to infiltrate the temporary holder of the wallet.
I am not going to do a research now if somebody managed it in the past to infiltrate FBI & others. But why shouldn't that be possible.

/Edit2: Now this thread is so much going to be on some watch list.

Quantum computing is possible already but only with few qbits, there will be enought to increase Bitcoin cryptography to higher bits before quantum computing culd be used for breaking these

[infinitelink]

The BEST* answer: They become an exceedingly interesting math problem. xD 

*yep, tootin' my own horn!