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Author Topic: SHOTRING BITCOIN: This is a good idea right now  (Read 8529 times)
ampere9765
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February 01, 2014, 05:03:40 PM
 #101

SHORTING Bitcoin is not a very great idea right now.

The only (?) shorting exchange, Bitfinex, has just removed the option to route stop losses through Bitstamp, which means shorters must now place short stop orders on Bitfinex.

Problem with this is that Bitfinex is populated and operated by sharks/thieves who will be plotting to farm your stop-loss at the first viable opportunity they get. Only way to avoid being called against the grain of the market is to to take very high risks with stop loss.

If anyone knows of a better place to short sell I would be pleased to hear about it.
they just made the book look like that, they still route orders through stamp, they just calculate it for us now so the order book is more clear. there is an announcement page somewhere.
MatTheCat
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February 01, 2014, 05:12:47 PM
Last edit: February 01, 2014, 06:22:28 PM by MatTheCat
 #102

they just made the book look like that, they still route orders through stamp, they just calculate it for us now so the order book is more clear. there is an announcement page somewhere.

No they don't. If I could have routed my short, which I made right at the very top of the recent spike through Stamp, like I could yesterday and the day before that, then I would never have been called and would have got in at $827. If I was still able to route Stop Loss through Stamp, I would be on a home run right now. But since I had to set my stop loss on Bitfinex, the 300 Ask wall suddenly disappeared into thin air and my stop loss was triggered by a relatively small order, right at the top of the market. Instead I had to wait until trend had clearly reversed, shorting at $822 and I also had to place my stop well out of reach of the market trading range. (which means if a sudden unpredictable surge of buying pressure comes into market, I am screwed) The risk v benefit ratio of doing this just doesn't add up.

Thing with Bitfinex is that if I have unused leverage, I can use this to build up a liar Ask wall to infinity without the fear of having to make good on the fake Ask wall volume that I am creating. This is especially true if I am trading with a bot. I don't trade with a bot, but plenty on Bitfinex do and probably the cunts that run the exchange are fkn crooks as well getting up to the exact same tricks in order to line their own pockets. My first experiences of shorting on Bitfinex were pretty bad. Only when I discovered the Bitstamp routing option could I start to make some reliable short trades. Now that they have taken that option away it is back to being an online pick-pocketing front running thieving bastard competition.

Bitfinex are basically a den of thieves and without the option to route stops through a respectable exchange, an honest trader is just going to get his pockets dipped trading on Bitfinex.

Kraken Account, Robbed/Emptied. Kraken say "Fuck you, its your loss": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1559553.msg15656643#msg15656643

Bitfinex victims. DO NOT TOUCH THE BFX TOKEN! Start moving it around, or trading it, and you will be construed as having accepted it as an alternative means of payment to your USD, BTC, etc.
ElectricMucus
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February 01, 2014, 06:44:42 PM
 #103

SHORTING Bitcoin is not a very great idea right now.

The only (?) shorting exchange, Bitfinex, has just removed the option to route stop losses through Bitstamp, which means shorters must now place short stop orders on Bitfinex.

Problem with this is that Bitfinex is populated and operated by sharks/thieves who will be plotting to farm your stop-loss at the first viable opportunity they get. Only way to avoid being called against the grain of the market is to to take very high risks with stop loss.

If anyone knows of a better place to short sell I would be pleased to hear about it.

If you are bent on leveraging short you can use btc-e's metatrader4 interface. It works similar to how bitcoinica did, with a fluctuating spread.
But you won't get any less giltchy market and I think it's quite stupid to use it, you'll have the same problems.
MatTheCat
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February 01, 2014, 06:51:26 PM
Last edit: February 01, 2014, 07:59:12 PM by MatTheCat
 #104

If you are bent on leveraging short you can use btc-e's metatrader4 interface. It works similar to how bitcoinica did, with a fluctuating spread.
But you won't get any less giltchy market and I think it's quite stupid to use it, you'll have the same problems.

I am only interesting in playing the shorting game if I can do so on an exchange where I am not going to be cheated. If the exact same crooked tape painting front running stop-loss farming shenanigans are going on BTC-e as they do on Bitfinex, then I would rather leave it out and stick with Long trades, Honest John style on Bitstamp.


Kraken Account, Robbed/Emptied. Kraken say "Fuck you, its your loss": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1559553.msg15656643#msg15656643

Bitfinex victims. DO NOT TOUCH THE BFX TOKEN! Start moving it around, or trading it, and you will be construed as having accepted it as an alternative means of payment to your USD, BTC, etc.
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