Here's food for thought: Bitcoin's carbon footprint

[Ucy]

I wish we could know how they arrived at 0.24% of world electricity consumption. Honestly it doesn't make sense at all but it could be true.
 How on earth is 0.24% of world electricity consumption possible?  How did they arrive at this number ?  Any well researched material available on this?


Have you guys considered how much energy is used for melting iron and other metals? How about energy for powering bill air-conditioners, energy for millions of factories, etc?

[Irvinn]

Why in this case should we consider only the situation that bitcoin is extracted using coal, gas or oil, that is, carbon sources of such energy? Even in China, the main source of mining is hydroelectric power. If you use renewable energy sources - the energy of the sun and wind, then mining will not seem so energy-intensive, and even more so that it harms the environment.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I wish we could know how they arrived at 0.24% of world electricity consumption.

If you read it, they explain it pretty extensively in the report, specifically this section: https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption#assumptions

They calculate total mining revenue, estimate (the least accurate part) how much of revenue is spent on energy, and then convert energy spending in to KWh. This lets them arrive at their figure of 54.6TWh per year being used for bitcoin. Their figures for global electricity consumption come from an International Energy Agency report which is behind a paywall, but the most recent free report from 2016 available here (http://energyatlas.iea.org/#!/tellmap/-1118783123) states global electricity production in 2016 was 25,082 TWh. Given that total consumption is always less than total production due to loss of energy via inefficiencies, storage, transformers, heat, etc. the figure will be somewhat (around 10-20%) less than 25,082 TWh. Divide 54.6 by ~22,000 to get ~0.24%.

[figmentofmyass]

Currently, our estimated annual electricity consumption is 54.6 TWh. That's massive when you compare it to Israel's 2015 total energy consumption, 52.86 TWh. Each transaction you make with bitcoin? That's 13.6 US households that could have been powered for a day, and a potential additional 191.17 kg of CO₂ carbon footprint. EACH. TRANSACTION. Bitcoin itself is amounting for 0.24% of the world's electricity, which is staggering that we're even approaching 1% to begin with. This consumption is potentially resulting in 25,935 kt of CO₂ annually (although a portion of the power is coming from renewable sources, which reduces this number).

it doesn't make sense to discuss these numbers in absolute terms. for example, we've seen mining operations flood the pacific northwest and other hydropower-rich areas. not only is this a low-carbon resource, but it brings up the issue of generation vs production. most energy cannot be efficiently stored. power plants generate power beyond demand to prevent energy shortages, then we have to consider renewables. there's quite a lot of excess energy that's already generated and must be used. power plants sell it to operations (including bitcoin miners) cheap to keep it from being wasted. these calculations make no effort to account for the idea that bitcoin miners rationally seek out regions where energy is abundant because they can use the excess supply at a discount.

the digiconomist report seems heavily biased towards an assumption that chinese mining operations are primarily using coal-fired energy, even though they lack any data to support that theory and other reports that the majority of operations are based on hydropower-rich sichuan contradict those assumptions.

I doubt sharing this will make much of an impact, but I want to hear your thoughts. Was I the only one too busy waving around enthusiastic posters about the ~possibilities of bitcoin~ or is there any among the community who's similarly surprised? Are there any movements or practices already being conducted within our ecosystem that's being initiated to counteract this increasing load on the environment around us?

think about gold mining and production or the banking industry. these also use incredible amounts of energy. bitcoin has one advantage over them---miners can pick up and flock to regions where energy generation is cheaper and more sustainable.

as long as humans continue to use money, this problem isn't going away.

[bitcoin revo]

i explain this because many large farms dont contract with energy suppliers for the 500thw consumption/utility amount.  but they actually do deals outside the norm to buy up some of the excess

I'd imagine that there are other places that the excess power could be directed to, though, if our current electrical requirements subside and allow for the allotment to other developments.

imagine if ASICS never happened whereby we were still in the GPU era of people connecting rigs 100% to domestic energy consumption/bill/supplies

also knowing the GPU hashrate, an kwh used per ghash.. imagine how many petawatthours would be used a year at todays hashrate..

That's exactly the kinds of things I love to see - but currently, it just seems like we're taking these increases in efficiencies and taking them as initiative to buy way more miners and continually push up total consumption- but I suppose that bitcoin as a system means that there's not much we can do to directly make changes for how much electricity it requires.

so i hope with lunch, dinner and dessert, i have given you enough food for thought to be full and happy

Thanks man, I thought I had a nice and full dinner but this one topped that.

Why in this case should we consider only the situation that bitcoin is extracted using coal, gas or oil, that is, carbon sources of such energy? Even in China, the main source of mining is hydroelectric power. If you use renewable energy sources - the energy of the sun and wind, then mining will not seem so energy-intensive, and even more so that it harms the environment.

The idea of bitcoin mining using renewables is addressed both in the original post and sporadically throughout the thread. Just because we account for renewable sources doesn't mean our consumption magically disappears - something that can be said for the world we live in, really. Is that enough to hide behind?

think about gold mining and production or the banking industry. these also use incredible amounts of energy. bitcoin has one advantage over them---miners can pick up and flock to regions where energy generation is cheaper and more sustainable.

as long as humans continue to use money, this problem isn't going away.

Mmm, still feels like we're aggravating the problem and having a mindset that this disadvantage is okay as long as we remain decentralized and all that good stuff.

[gentlemand]

In fact, Bitcoin does not consume so much energy for its production as compared to our other types of activity, in particular, for example, for the work of banks.

Banks service several billion people. Bitcoin serves maybe 5-10 million on a regular basis. That's one angle that doesn't stack up in the slightest.

Excess or waste power is pretty much the only leg it has to stand on to fend off accusations of profligacy. Other than that it's a fact and a distasteful one and I don't see how it can be defended no matter what desperate leaps of logic are attempted. Best we can hope for is that the user numbers catch up to match expenditure of power.