Q | Trezor

[RinkaDink]

Hey,

I hope this is the place to post this question
I've seen countless videos online on how to utilize trezor to claim and unclaimed forks
but i tried 4-5 times so far didnt get to finish the process it looked like its not going to get me anywhere
I understand that trezor uses a different security or whatever it is.

Is there any real easy option to claim everything from there or i should just stop using trezor all together and get something more like electrum ?

Thank you for any help in advance !
I'll definitely give 10% of forks to the helper

[Pmalek]

If you are having problems with Trezor you can simply import your private key in a different wallet like Electrum, or an exchange that supports the fork - claim the tokens that way and then move those new coins to your Trezor if they are supported.

[RinkaDink]

If you are having problems with Trezor you can simply import your private key in a different wallet like Electrum, or an exchange that supports the fork - claim the tokens that way and then move those new coins to your Trezor if they are supported.

Wait, how can i import a private key to an exchange :O ?! and will that automatically display all the forked coins ?
you blew my mind if it works
But how do you export the keys ? whenever i do it i get a large xls file with freaking 100 of them ...

[Pmalek]

You cant import your private keys to an exchange but you can to another wallet like Electrum.
You can also transfer your coins to an exchange that supports the hard fork. There the fork is done automatically at the scheduled time. Once that is done you withdraw the coins back to your wallet.

Here is a guide how to import your private keys:
https://bitcoinelectrum.com/importing-your-private-keys-into-electrum/

[mocacinno]

AFAIK, you can't export your xprv or derived private keys from a trezor, however, you should be able to use the seed phrase and restore your wallet on a compatible software wallet like electrum. At this point, you should consider your hardware wallet to be compromised!

That being said, i personally feel this is a bad idear! I always advice people to move away their funds from online wallets and exchanges and store their funds using a hardware wallet.

Safety-wise it goes like this:
(airgapped, non HD, recent core wallet) > (airgapped HD wallet) > (hardware wallet) > (paper wallet) > (recent, community supported desktop wallet) > (safe, wellknown online wallet) > (exchange or casino wallet)

Sure, you can start using an exchange wallet and receive peanuts in forked altcoins, but would you compromise your security for a measily couple of bucks? I'm sure i wouldn't...

I have claimed a couple of forks with my trezor, and eventough the process didn't work flawless in the beginning, it did work in the end... Trezor doesn't support all forks, but my personal opinion is that if a fork is actually worth something (and not a mere money-grab by the developers), trezor will sooner or later support them and allow you to use the forked unspent outputs in a safe way...

[RinkaDink]

AFAIK, you can't export your xprv or derived private keys from a trezor, however, you should be able to use the seed phrase and restore your wallet on a compatible software wallet like electrum.

That being said, i personally feel this is a bad idear! I always advice people to move away their funds from online wallets and exchanges and store their funds using a hardware wallet.

Safety-wise it goes like this:
(airgapped, non HD, recent core wallet) > (airgapped HD wallet) > (hardware wallet) > (paper wallet) > (recent, community supported desktop wallet) > (safe, wellknown online wallet) > (exchange or casino wallet)

but trezor is a hard wallet im just trying to get the these forking forks
im just a little bit more confused.. im going to read the link posted above right now

so i need to export my private keys from trezor or use the phrase ? and if i use it what will happen its the elctrum walet is just a btc wallet im trying to understand how its done cause i thought i just need to upload the private keys to a wallet that has the forked coin on it and abrakadabra its done ?

[mocacinno]

but trezor is a hard wallet im just trying to get the these forking forks
im just a little bit more confused.. im going to read the link posted above right now

so i need to export my private keys from trezor or use the phrase ? and if i use it what will happen its the elctrum walet is just a btc wallet im trying to understand how its done cause i thought i just need to upload the private keys to a wallet that has the forked coin on it and abrakadabra its done ?

Stop right there, educate yourself before doing something unwise...
The article posted by Pmalek is talking about how to import private keys into electrum... But like i said: i don't think it's a good idear to do this (safety wise)... You're actually using a very safe solution, and using the seed phrase to restore your wallet on a desktop wallet is taking a huge step back in the security department for a lousy couple of bucks...

To answer the questions in this post:

• As far as i know, you can't export your master private key, nor the derived keys from a trezor wallet... It isn't a feature of a hardware wallet because it's a bad idear to do so
• You CAN restore your wallet on electrum using the seed phrase by setting the proper derivation path... However, it's not a good idear to do so
• uploading private keys to a web service is never a good idear

[RinkaDink]

but trezor is a hard wallet im just trying to get the these forking forks
im just a little bit more confused.. im going to read the link posted above right now

so i need to export my private keys from trezor or use the phrase ? and if i use it what will happen its the elctrum walet is just a btc wallet im trying to understand how its done cause i thought i just need to upload the private keys to a wallet that has the forked coin on it and abrakadabra its done ?

Stop right there, educate yourself before doing something unwise...
The article posted by Pmalek is talking about how to import private keys into electrum... But like i said: i don't think it's a good idear to do this (safety wise)... You're actually using a very safe solution, and using the seed phrase to restore your wallet on a desktop wallet is taking a huge step back in the security department for a lousy couple of bucks...

So you're recommendation is just to forget about the forked coins ?

[mocacinno]

--snip--

So you're recommendation is just to forget about the forked coins ?

Not necessarily... There are a couple of factors you have to consider here:

• How much are the forked coins worth?
• Do you expect the exchange rate of the forked coins to drop in the near future?

There are ways to claim forked coins from a trezor wallet, but still be secure... But it's quite a procedure to do this... I was actually still editing one of my previous posts, but i was actually explaining that if a fork turns out to be something more than a shameless money-grab, trezor *usually* starts supporting them after a while... So if the fork you want to claim is actually worth a damn in the longrun, just waiting it out might actually be an easy sollution

[RinkaDink]

--snip--

So you're recommendation is just to forget about the forked coins ?

Not necessarily... There are a couple of factors you have to consider here:

• How much are the forked coins worth?
• Do you expect the exchange rate of the forked coins to drop in the near future?

not more than
and some of them already drop to shit but these would be hodling options for the shittier ones i guess

[mocacinno]

--snip--
not more than 70k usd i think
and some of them already drop to shit but these would be hodling options for the shittier ones i guess

70k USD in forked coins... Well, that's well worth your effort...

IF you hold 70k USD in forked coins, your BTC must be worth at least 10 times as much? In this case i'd defenatly NOT use the seed phrase to restore your wallet!!! I would NOT recommand starting to export anything or restore anything... There are ways to claim these forks in a SAFE and SECURE way!!!

• First step: Make sure your seed phrase for your trezor device is correct... There is a tool in the trezor wallet to verify your seed, i'd recommand using it (on a safe computer)
• Second step: it would be easyer if you had a second hardware wallet available, but you could also use a less safe intermediate wallet instead... The second step would be to move all your BTC from your trezor to a second (safe) wallet... Preferably a second hardware wallet, but if you don't have a hardware wallet, a properly generated paper wallet might work aswell. If you chose a paper wallet, i'd recommand getting familiar with paper wallets by printing a couple and funding them with really small amounts, then sweeping them into electrum or your hardware wallet... You can even make a paper wallet for testnet coins, and try a testnet paper wallet first...
• Thirth step: As soon as your BTC funds are moved, and the transaction moving your BTC is confirmed: use the seed phrase to recover your wallet in electrum. This link might set you on the right track => https://www.reddit.com/r/TREZOR/comments/6xz0m3/restoring_trezor_on_electrum_with_seed/
• Fourth step: at this point, you should see the complete history of all transactions you made with your hardware device in electrum... Go to "view" => "show addresses" to see a list of all addresses that were funded at one point in time... They should ALL be empty now (see step 3) Go to "wallet" => "private keys" => "export"
• Fifth step: you can now import the private keys of all addresses that were funded at one point in time (see step 4) into the wallets of the forked altcoins... Start with the altcoin that has the highest price, once you moved these funds to a new wallet or exchange, you can start with the altcoin that has the second highest price (and so on). A simple google query should turn up plenty of tutorials on how to import private keys into forked coins' wallets
• Sixth step: you can now re-initialise your trezor WITH A NEW SEED and move the funds you moved away in the second step back to your trezor. Since the trezor was initialised with a new seed, it doesn't matter you used the PREVIOUS seed on an online device, since the master private key generated by this seed does no longer generate any private keys => public keys => addresses that are funded (the wallet generated by the OLD private key should remain empty forever)

[RinkaDink]

in the link you sent there were just arguing and didnt get to a conclusion on the derivative

lets say the derivative works , which im going to try now
Fifth step: is to upload these private addresses to a web based wallet the accepts the forks like Jaxx,Bitpie and so on ?

[mocacinno]

in the link you sent there were just arguing and didnt get to a conclusion on the derivative

lets say the derivative works , which im going to try now
Fifth step: is to upload these private addresses to a web based wallet the accepts the forks like Jaxx,Bitpie and so on ?

I didn't send you a link... Do you mean the link to reddit? In this case, the first reply together with the first comment should actually do the trick... I didn't test the procedure since this procedure should only be performed after you moved all your funds from your trezor to a different (safe) wallet (which is a drag, and i never had the need to do so).

The fifth step is not uploading the private keys to a web based wallet... Please, never upload private keys...

I'm not a fan, but there might be one exeption... I heared relatively good reviews about https://dig.walleting.services/#/, however i would NOT recommend entering your seed on an online form! Even if you use this service, you'd still have to do the first two steps

[RinkaDink]

in the link you sent there were just arguing and didnt get to a conclusion on the derivative

lets say the derivative works , which im going to try now
Fifth step: is to upload these private addresses to a web based wallet the accepts the forks like Jaxx,Bitpie and so on ?

I didn't send you a link... Do you mean the link to reddit? In this case, the first reply together with the first comment should actually do the trick... I didn't test the procedure since this procedure should only be performed after you moved all your funds from your trezor to a different (safe) wallet (which is a drag, and i never had the need to do so).

The fifth step is not uploading the private keys to a web based wallet... Please, never upload private keys...

I'm not a fan, but there might be one exeption... I heared relatively good reviews about https://dig.walleting.services/#/, however i would NOT recommend entering your seed on an online form! Even if you use this service, you'd still have to do the first two steps

So what would be the safest way in step 5 then ?
lets say for example im taking out some of these forks http://www.findmycoins.ninja/
didnt claim any of them not even BCH
so i need to download each individual wallet of a forked coin, upload the private keys there and do it over and over again with each coin ?

[mocacinno]

--snip--

So what would be the safest way in step 5 then ?
lets say for example im taking out some of these forks http://www.findmycoins.ninja/
didnt claim any of them not even BCH
so i need to download each individual wallet of a forked coin, upload the private keys there and do it over and over again with each coin ?

yes...
find the most expensive coin, find the list of supported wallets for said coin, check if the wallet is safe (check if there are scam reports about the wallet OR the coin for that matter). If it's safe, run the wallet, import the private keys from step 4 (only the private keys belonging to an address that was once funded are needed, altough it doesn't hurt to import the full list if you're unsure), spend altcoin (send the altcoin to an exchange if you want to exchange it for BTC or to a new, clean, wallet if you want to hold on to the altcoin).

IF the altcoin has a forked version of electrum (a lot of them do), i'd prefer the forked version of electrum over the forked version of core... Core needs to sync the full blockchain and it takes a long time to do this... There are technical sollutions to avoid having to sync the blockchain for each altcoin, but this makes things even more difficult.

This clearly proves why you need to EMPTY out the original trezor wallet and move all BTC to a new, safe, wallet before you start importing the seed in electrum, exporting the private keys from electrum or importing the private keys into an altcoin wallet... Why?

Because:

1) if you're importing trezor's seed in electrum, you're basically typing a seed phrase that's meanth to be offline 100% of the time on an online machine. There is no guarantee that electrum is 100% bug-free, there is no guarantee your PC is 100% clean, there is no guarantee you have the "original" electrum version... As soon as you type the seed on an online machine, there is a chance somebody malicious gained access to the seed phrase

2) if you're exporting the list of private keys, you dump them to a textfile... There is no guarantee your PC is 100% clean

3) if you import key into an altcoin wallet: those wallets are basically forks from bitcoin wallets, these altcoin wallets aren't always vetted in the same way the originals were once vetted... There is no guarantee the developers haven't added a backdoor.

Even if you don't care about any of this, some forks might not have replay protection! So, it's always a good idear to make sure all the unspent outputs on the bitcoin blockchain have been spent before starting the procedure...

I've once made a nice graph to explain replay protection... here it is: (copyright: me  )

[RinkaDink]

first of all that was amazing ! i actually understand now !
Ill get to it later on today and as promised once i get this shit in , 10% is yours.
i hope a manager is watching because this is exactly what i was told about this forum, filled with professional individuals.

Thank you very much !

[mocacinno]

first of all that was amazing ! i actually understand now !
Ill get to it later on today and as promised once i get this shit in , 10% is yours.
i hope a manager is watching because this is exactly what i was told about this forum, filled with professional individuals.

Thank you very much !

You're very welcome  
Just make sure you empty out your trezor wallet, moving your funds to a SAFE intermediate wallet before you do anything else... This way you're sure nothing will happen to your bitcoin holdings. Make sure the intermediate (safe) wallet is known to you, properly backupped and tested before you move your funds from the trezor to the intermediate wallet.

It doesn't hurt to try out the intermediate wallet with very small amounts first (fund, withdraw, load, sweep), so you are 100% sure you'll be able to move your funds back to the freshly initialised trezor after all forks have been claimed.

If you don't have a second hardware wallet, i've written a guide on the proper usage of a paper wallet on my blog a long, long time ago... But the article should still be as valid as the day i wrote it: https://www.mocacinno.com/blog/the-enduserguide-to-creating-depositing-to-and-sweeping-paper-wallets/

Good luck... If you have any more questions, don't hesistate to ask them... If i'm not around, somebody else will probably be able to help you out

[Pmalek]

I apologies since I suggested that you should export your private key and @mocacinno is right, you should go for and use the seed phrase instead. 

[RinkaDink]

started the process once done will notify to send my share as promised @mocacinno