Flag and Trust system effectiveness problems for newbies

[bitmover]

Hello,

I was talking to this user today, and he confirmed something that I was thinking about for a while.

A newbie received a PM from this user, which is already -7 trust. He was scammed and lost btc, because he couldn't understand/see the trust system.

This was his post explaning.

User:
dj6230
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=128222

The PM from dj6230 was:
Hi,
Mycelium uses the same bip39 standard and derivation paths as Ledger so let's use the Ledger toolkit to try to locate the address holding the funds:
1. Open https://ledgertoolkit.com
2. Where it says "BIP39 Mnemonic" paste or type your 12 word seed from Mycelium
3. Scroll down and click "BIP32"
4. For client select "Coinomi, Ledger"
5. It will show ALL BTC addresses derived from your 12 word seed, try to locate the btc address hodling the funds
Reply when you have found it and i will show you how to import it again with the funds visible.

TryNinja suggested that the scammed user create a flag. But, in this case, flag wouldn't help also, because they are "hidden" inside the trust page.

For us, veterans of the forum, we see a profile pageand we now where to look at. But there is so much useless information there (ICQ, MSN, location, website, current status, gender, Local time, wtf!!). Newbies just go ahead without looking.


I know this user was careless. But, maybe some changes would be welcome on this profile pages, especially for known scammers with flag + red trust. Maybe a flag shining in the profile page and on every PM sent?


Edit: just discovered that flags appears on PM (never received a pm from flagged user before). maybe red trust should show also? We can't flag every known scammer.

[suchmoon]

Edit: just discovered that flags appears on PM (never received a pm from flagged user before). maybe red trust should show also? We can't flag every known scammer.

Trust scores do show up on PMs. I would prefer it to be more prominent but theymos seems to be against making red trust or the newbie flag more visible/alarming etc. At the end of the day there is only so much you can do for someone who doesn't care to check whom they're talking to, or - worse yet - looks at "Trust: +0 / =0 / -7" and decides to ignore it.

[bitmover]

Trust scores do show up on PMs. I would prefer it to be more prominent but theymos seems to be against making red trust or the newbie flag more visible/alarming etc. At the end of the day there is only so much you can do for someone who doesn't care to check whom they're talking to, or - worse yet - looks at "Trust: +0 / =0 / -7" and decides to ignore it.

This is what I am saying, newbies doesn't know what "Trust: +0 / =0 / -7"  means (which is quite complicated if you ask me)

Just received some additional information:

Thank you for taking care of the forum and fighting the scammers..
Actually, I started following the malicious advice as soon as I obtained the message through e-mail notification.
This way, nervous newbies like me can miss flags/trust scores etc.

Does trust scores/flag shows up on e-mail when a user receive a PM? This may have been forgotten.

This could be improved as well.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

there is only so much you can do for someone who doesn't care to check whom they're talking to, or - worse yet - looks at "Trust: +0 / =0 / -7" and decides to ignore it.

I saw the thread OP is talking about, and I feel for the guy.  I'm not sure that he saw the flag or even the trust--probably the latter, but it seems like he missed it.  He could have just been reading the text of the PM and since he wasn't trading with the sender, he didn't bother checking the guy's trust score.

Either way, I do think the flags and perhaps the trust score should be more visible.  The way I see it, what could it hurt?  I think it could only help.  Yeah, people should do their due diligence on everything, but we know not everyone does and any protection mechanisms Theymos could implement would be positive things.

[Jet Cash]

There is a banner for newby and inactive poster messages. Maybe there should be one for neg trust.

[suchmoon]

Does trust scores/flag shows up on e-mail when a user receive a PM? This may have been forgotten.

Is that really necessary? If someone is able to lose money by sending it to some website received via e-mail... that's not something the forum can really solve.

Maybe a generic warning could be added, like DON'T TRUST ANYTHING IN THIS E-MAIL but I bet next time someone pops up complaining that they didn't notice that.

[TryNinja]

There is a banner for newby and inactive poster messages. Maybe there should be one for neg trust.

Isn’t that only in their trust page? Flags have an even bigger warning there (and in threads created by the OP). Neg trusts aren’t probably because this is now something more relative (while flags are more precise and more fact-based than subjective opinions).

[Jet Cash]

I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't read about the flag system here. I'm really most interested in Bitcoin and its use, and the possibility of using other cryptos for payment and rewards for content production. I'm also interested in world politics and macro economics., and I'm trying to avoid all the infighting that is going on here.

I would be prepared to help with any system that could reduce the scamming that goes on in the Bitcoin economy, but I am not sure what I can do that would be of benefit to the community. I don't have the time to review all the offers and announcements, and, in fact, I've got almost all of the boards on ignore.

[wwzsocki]

DON'T TRUST ANYTHING IN THIS E-MAIL

Rule number one: NEVER USE ANY LINKS FROM EMAILS. There is no other way to stay relatively safe these days online.

If there is no other way and you have to use a link from untrusted third-party do it in sandbox or in virtual machine. All links should be checked, even from trusted sites because there is always a threat of Homograph Phishing attacks. Here you can read more: What is Punycode and how to protect yourself from Homograph Phishing attacks?

Of course, the trust system could be improved if possible to help recognize scammers faster and easier, especially for newbies.
This is actually already discussed and many solutions were suggested in this thread: How can we protect Newbies from getting scammed?.
As we can see newbies are still being scammed in the exact same way on the forum. In the thread quoted above, newbie lost 30.000$ because of malicious link in PM from the scammer.

[rosezionjohn]

maybe red trust should show also?

I don't know if it's been added just recently but the red trust is showing now even on private messages based on the image below.

[LoyceV]

One of the problems is that people are so used to trust almost anything they read on the internet. I too am very used to following installation guides online: copy/paste commands with "sudo apt-get ......" and much more. I check a bit before I do it, and since I'm into crypto I use VMs more often for those things, but in general I trust the information I find on many forums to be correct and honest. Doesn't matter if it's about computers, cars or gardening, it's often correct.

And then there's crypto, where scammers suddenly have a huge incentive to deceit. It just doesn't match what I'm used to on the internet, and people need to get used to that first. Most people aren't used to encounter conmen in real life, so they're not as alert as they should be online.

[hugeblack]

user @dj6230 can set up an alt account and communicate with the victim.
It's not about trust when you choose to trust an unknown person through PM/EMAIL.
The user should search and ask for that method before trying it.
The best that the forum can offer is a welcome message explaining the basics.

[Vod]

The new BPIP extension will show every profile's trust information, including flags, on every thread in every section.  Releasing this summer!