Just an Idea - Buy/Sell Contract

[velhoti]

I was think about a good feature that centralized payment systems have, wich is to revert transactions and block some account. Let me explain, it is good for discourage scammers and protect the client, because the scammer won't profit and eventualy will be blocked. Payment using Bitcoin doesn't put any barrier for scammers except the community sharing information.

A buy/sell contract is a contract where the buyer deposit the price (price to be payed to buy something) and a buyer stimulus, the seller only deposit the seller stimulus. The price and both stimulus must be agreed between seller and buyer.

The entire value become blocked until one of the parties release it. The seller only have the power to back the price and the buyer stimulus back to the buyer, if he decide to refund the client, and he receive back the seller stimulus.
The buyer only have the power to unlock the price and the seller stimulus in favor of the seller, receiving back the buyer stimulus.

This way the buyer may never release the price and the stimulus to the seller, making impossible to scam. Even if the seller is honest but some problem happen in the shipping, the buyer can opt to do not release any money to the seller, and the seller is encouraged to release the price and the buyer stimulus in order to receive the seller stimulus back.

Sorry, just have no clue how it could be implemented.

[jackg]

I think this is already don't somewhere in a better way. I know what you mean but here's the problem with your solution: what stops the seller not delivering products and then not returning the funds? What stops the buyer not putting the funds through and just leaving them stuck there? You might say there's nothing useful in doing that but some people just scam to prove they can do it...

The working alternative to all of this is 2 of 3 escrow but then that can be limited by social engineering.

[velhoti]

What stops the buyer not putting the funds through and just leaving them stuck there? You might say there's nothing useful in doing that but some people just scam to prove they can do it...

He can, and that is not the only way someone can pay to harm another person.

[nc50lc]

He can, and that is not the only way someone can pay to harm another person.

Uh, and what are the other ways to harm the other party?
While you're at it, think why a feature with flaws that you're enumerating is better than the current centralized payment processors

BTW a (2/3) escrow address with expiration (expiration date in favor of the seller) can be used in this scenario,
that requires the centralized entity to create their own software that supports scripts with CLTV.

Sorry, just have no clue how it could be implemented.

If it isn't a good idea in the first place, there no point of thinking the possible implementations.

[velhoti]

While you're at it, think why a feature with flaws that you're enumerating is better than the current centralized payment processors

There are many, no censorship is one. Any advantage of use bitcoin instead of fiat is applicable here. But advantages of use bitcoin is not the discussion of this topic.

The working alternative to all of this is 2 of 3 escrow but then that can be limited by social engineering.

Didn't know this solution, thank you.

If it isn't a good idea in the first place, there no point of thinking the possible implementations.

If it is impossible to implement in the first place, or perhaps it is very difficult, may not worth to dive into the discussion. That is the point of  thinking the possible implementations. I have no clue the difficulties and possibility of implement.

[jackg]

Actually thinking about it, charge backs in payments is a thing that's only been done recently. Before then it was trying to get a cashier to honour to your signed receipt or in some cases to give you a receipt in the first place.


Is time locked escrow a thing? I mean sure you can make a transaction that'll broadcast after a certain pint in time in a 2 of 3 multisig but is there an implementation for anything else like this on the bitcoin network? @nc50lc

[nc50lc]

Is time locked escrow a thing? I mean sure you can make a transaction that'll broadcast after a certain pint in time in a 2 of 3 multisig but is there an implementation for anything else like this on the bitcoin network? @nc50lc

Bitcoin Core can't, but the network allows scripts with CLTV instructions (could be wrong). [BIPS][BIP65]
AFAIK, there's a wallet that implemented this in their client's addresses as a security feature, I forgot the name.

[jackg]

I completely forgot about checklocktime. I think coinb.in tried implementing it at some point but be careful with it if you try to use it as it's probably quite easy to get the address wrong and cause irreversible problems (especially if you set the time too high) and it'll use block time and it's a good idea to assume 9 or 8 minute blocks to protect yourself even more.