Please, help me understand.

[BernyJB]

Ok, yeah, I'm as new as anybody can be.
The fact is, I keep reading everybody treating investing and trading as two different worlds.
Now, the more I read about it, the more I think both investing and trading techniques could be used together to optimize returns. I have asked about it before, and was told it'd be terribly difficult to implement both at the same time. But, for what I see (yeah, I understand I probably don't know the half of it), implementing a strategy combining techniques from both shouldn't be that hard, and the difference in terms of both increased returns and minimized risks could be important.

For example: when it comes to rebalancing, using some trading techniques would help you avoid buying and/or selling at the wrong time which is a very real possibility if you rebalance using time or margin alone.

Then I keep having the suspicion I'm missing something.
Am I?

Thank you all in advance. 

[jackg]

For appreciating assets, trading and investing will both work so a hybrid of the two will obviously work too.

Most people probably expect the hybrid to take as much time as trading though (unless you're trading something like alerts for % rises and drops as an example).

(there are people who seek investments and holding them because they don't want to think about trading or they have tried to and made a loss - either risk managed or just lost more than they wanted to - and got put off).

[BernyJB]

For appreciating assets, trading and investing will both work so a hybrid of the two will obviously work too.

Most people probably expect the hybrid to take as much time as trading though (unless you're trading something like alerts for % rises and drops as an example).

(there are people who seek investments and holding them because they don't want to think about trading or they have tried to and made a loss - either risk managed or just lost more than they wanted to - and got put off).

Thank you, that's something I hadn't thought of. Most people give advise based on their personal experience.
That could also make a case for not having all your investment riding on one single strategy, or having different accounts with different currencies, following different strategies.
I gotta do some thinking...

[Findingnemo]

The investment is nothing but the lonest form of trading because investment is made to reap profits which means you expect the price to be higher in the future which can be in a day or two which is trading in general or in few years which is investment.

Both are similar in sounds but strategies required is different for example you have to concentrate more on fundamental analysis of assets for long term but for the shorter form you need to be strong on technical analysis using indicators. Well if you found the price movement before its going to happen then you are the richest person in this world in the next few weeks so it is practically impossible.

[GeorgeJohn]

Just want to portray my opinion on the trading and investment, i have microscopes the two words from my prospection and detects that both, they are no really differentiation in between, it's only based on our comprehension ability or reasoning together before we can as well conclude that they are different, investment doesn't only come in direction of long time investment or like annual investment, trading is also a partial investment which occur in short period of time, and the positivity and negativity of it will showscase immediately after the ends of the trading, it's not like long time investment.

[Upgrade00]

The investment is nothing but the lonest form of trading because investment is made to reap profits which means you expect the price to be higher in the future which can be in a day or two which is trading in general or in few years which is investment.

Well, in trading one can sometimes short an asset, which basically means you expect the price to drop in the coming days/weeks and sell your current position so as to buy back when the price is much lower while profiting.

Both trading and investments are somewhat slightly similar and strategies can be applied successfully in both situations, but there are marked difference between them and very different approaches. I personally don't believe being a good trader would make one a good inveror and vice versa.

[HCP]

... both increased returns and minimized risks could be important.

These 2 things are generally mutually exclusive... or to put it another way, risk and return are generally proportional.

As one increases, so does the other... as one decreases, so does the other.


The unicorn of investing has always been the "low risk, high return" investment. I'll just say that history shows that a lot of money has been lost betting on "horses with a horn glued to their heads"...

[Findingnemo]

Both trading and investments are somewhat slightly similar and strategies can be applied successfully in both situations, but there are marked difference between them and very different approaches. I personally don't believe being a good trader would make one a good inveror and vice versa.

A good investor is always a good trader from opinion because they are actually selling and buying assets at the right time but in longer frame so they have better cushion when it comes to thr volatility nature of cryptocurrency since they have time to decide whether they have to sell or wait for the better position.

Meanwhile being a good trader is really more difficult task and most will fail in long term due to the inconsistent profit making and also they have to adopt different strategies at different market conditions.

[Charles-Tim]

For example: when it comes to rebalancing, using some trading techniques would help you avoid buying and/or selling at the wrong time which is a very real possibility if you rebalance using time or margin alone.

No trader is perfect, no matter how good they are, there will be some lapses. It is good to set a specific plan if you are a trader, it is riskier, time consuming and also exhausting if compared with holding. There are times of losses but later correction in few minutes. There is more to trading but what should be more avoided is high volatility that just happened recently that can lead to liquidation of the position if against the one taken. Traders are should not be greedy.

I personally don't believe being a good trader would make one a good inveror and vice versa.

Being a good trader will make a good investor but being a good investor might not make a good trader. It is just like college students having the basic knowledge and experience of high school students, but not possible for high school students to have the knowledge and experience of a college students.

... both increased returns and minimized risks could be important.

These 2 things are generally mutually exclusive... or to put it another way, risk and return are generally proportional.

As one increases, so does the other... as one decreases, so does the other.

Exactly. The higher the risk, the higher can be the return. But experienced traders go for lower risk trading because in high risk trading, more chances that the liquidation price would be attained compared to the goal set by the trader.

A good investor is always a good trader from opinion because they are actually selling and buying assets at the right time but in longer frame.

Acceptable, but traders and holders are distinctly different, holders are not traders. But good traders even know more about investing. Only what is required in holding is time, it can be months to years.

[Findingnemo]

Acceptable, but traders and holders are distinctly different, holders are not traders. But good traders even know more about investing. Only what is required in holding is time, it can be months to years.

Contrast opinions, because I feel traders have lack of patience in general including me which will hit us when we become a long term investor so it may take few lessons to get used to it which is what I observed from my experiences all these years from trader to investor and day trader but we can make the things to work when we know how to manage our funds which is must need skill for both trader and investor.

[BernyJB]

Thank you all. That's definitely something to think about.
For some reason (my head works in weird ways, sometimes), since I learned about the chance of automating the rebalancing, I somehow "decided" that the whole thing could (and should) be made by a bot.
I guess I'm gonna have to do a lot more thinking, and a helluva lot more reading... 

[CryptocurencyKing]

The investment is nothing but the lonest form of trading because investment is made to reap profits which means you expect the price to be higher in the future which can be in a day or two which is trading in general or in few years which is investment.

Well, in trading one can sometimes short an asset, which basically means you expect the price to drop in the coming days/weeks and sell your current position so as to buy back when the price is much lower while profiting.

Both trading and investments are somewhat slightly similar and strategies can be applied successfully in both situations, but there are marked difference between them and very different approaches. I personally don't believe being a good trader would make one a good inveror and vice versa.

Good point. As much as investing and trading might seem a lot similar, it still comes with some distinctive difference. As, one seems to be a combinant part of the other. Like one can say or I think right now that, all forms of trading could be regarded as an investment but not all investments are trading. To explain further, I'll say,

One who buys a coin in the crypto market only to sell back when it goes up or appreciates in value could be seen as a trader. Then again, an investor could be one who purchases a commodity, be it crypto or any other thing and trade it at a sustained rate while getting incomes off it or even, get some appliances in a field to offer some sort of service and still get paid for them could be regarded for an investor. Even still, buying of company shares.

In these way, you could be an investor but not so much as a trader!

[pooya87]

Acceptable, but traders and holders are distinctly different, holders are not traders. But good traders even know more about investing. Only what is required in holding is time, it can be months to years.

Contrast opinions, because I feel traders have lack of patience in general including me which will hit us when we become a long term investor so it may take few lessons to get used to it which is what I observed from my experiences all these years from trader to investor and day trader but we can make the things to work when we know how to manage our funds which is must need skill for both trader and investor.

In the altcoin market lacking patience is actually a good thing because "patience" always translates into experiencing the dumping part of the pump and dump duo and end up losing money which nobody wants. In fact one of the best ways to make maximum profit from the altcoin market as a whole is to move from altcoin to altcoin and never staying in any of the pumping ones beyond your profit targets.

Investment makes more sense when you buy bitcoin with a long term view. That way you avoid the short term volatility and still gain a lot of profit because bitcoin will go up in the end even if it drops for a little while.

[Findingnemo]

In the altcoin market lacking patience is actually a good thing because "patience" always translates into experiencing the dumping part of the pump and dump duo and end up losing money which nobody wants. In fact one of the best ways to make maximum profit from the altcoin market as a whole is to move from altcoin to altcoin and never staying in any of the pumping ones beyond your profit targets.

Lack of patience is different from deciding what we should according to the market movement in my opinion, even if the altcoin move faster either it bump or dump we should wait until our expected price to reach but with lack of patience the panic sell button will be kicked so we choose to sell the altcoins for a loss which can be avoided with little patience if we have.

But when it comes to altcoin trading we should choose the coins wisely like more liquidity volume and less volatility so we will have better cushion to handle as per the situation.

[pooya87]

~we should wait until our expected price to reach but with lack of patience the panic sell button will be kicked so we choose to sell the altcoins for a loss which can be avoided with little patience if we have.

That's the problem with altcoin market, there is no "expected price". For example for the past 4 years a lot of users have been waiting for their "expected price" to be reached in the large number of shitcoins they've bought such as ETH reaching 0.15 again and none of them have been able to reach any of those "expected prices" and anyone who had "patient" has been a 4+ year old bag holder who has lost between 50% to 98% of their money already.

[Findingnemo]

~we should wait until our expected price to reach but with lack of patience the panic sell button will be kicked so we choose to sell the altcoins for a loss which can be avoided with little patience if we have.

That's the problem with altcoin market, there is no "expected price". For example for the past 4 years a lot of users have been waiting for their "expected price" to be reached in the large number of shitcoins they've bought such as ETH reaching 0.15 again and none of them have been able to reach any of those "expected prices" and anyone who had "patient" has been a 4+ year old bag holder who has lost between 50% to 98% of their money already.

I remember ETH was at $100 or little above but after that it reached new height of crossing over $4K which is actually 400% rise that is what the investors should look into. But if they purchased other shitcoins which cost a dollar year ago doesn't even have any value now that is why Bitcoin is best ever for long term than trusting those cheap coins.

[pooya87]

~we should wait until our expected price to reach but with lack of patience the panic sell button will be kicked so we choose to sell the altcoins for a loss which can be avoided with little patience if we have.

That's the problem with altcoin market, there is no "expected price". For example for the past 4 years a lot of users have been waiting for their "expected price" to be reached in the large number of shitcoins they've bought such as ETH reaching 0.15 again and none of them have been able to reach any of those "expected prices" and anyone who had "patient" has been a 4+ year old bag holder who has lost between 50% to 98% of their money already.

I remember ETH was at $100 or little above but after that it reached new height of crossing over $4K which is actually 400% rise that is what the investors should look into. But if they purchased other shitcoins which cost a dollar year ago doesn't even have any value now that is why Bitcoin is best ever for long term than trusting those cheap coins.

Actually most shitcoins you look at today have a higher dollar price now compared to years ago simply because bitcoin price has gone up and they have gotten dumped against bitcoin but less than the increase, so there is a net $ gain. For example when bitcoin price doubles (eg. from $3k to $6k) they have to lose at most 50% to have gained anything in dollar terms (eg. from 0.020BTC to 0.011BTC). This creates the illusion that these shitcoins have gained value!

[hugeblack]

All your answers will be in a science called "opportunity cost^{[1] [2]}." What you are looking for is called real profit and not accounting profit, as you think about several parties to achieve the maximum possible return from profit, a feature that is for those who studied the market carefully and then put their plan into a strategy that may not work with All and you need experience to be profitable.

This experience is for investors who have spent a lot of time, but you can start learning, it is not difficult, but you must realize that every loss is a profit opportunity if you make good use of it.


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost
[2] Opportunity Cost = (returns on best Forgone Option) - (returns on Chosen Option) ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost#cite_note-1