Why you should think twice before mining on " Nicehash."

[starcat]

For those of us who were on the platform when it was hacked, you as well as myself go way back with this " Entity."
All of the charades that they rolled out with respect to having to mine more coins to then qualify to get paid back a portion of the hacked coins did not sit well with me.
In the recent past, I installed the lastest version of their software after a term of not using the pool for some months.
The Performance was surprisingly GOOD on Intel i5-7600k systems running Sapphire RX-570 cards. I mean real good.....

Shortly thereafter, Nicehash ramped up security requirements for withdrawal of mined coins to ridiculous degrees.
They also suggested that you could use a " Yubico " key for 2fa if desired and then offered absolutely no instructions on how to set the key up.
When I inquired at Yubico about " Setup instructions " I was told that Nicehash was not listed with their service. Later on I got a link from Nicehash to a Yubico software and a setup guide. Something that " Yubico " themselves did not even mention was necessary in making use of their product when I spoke to them. Can it get any more Cryptic or stupid?
Like anyone is just supposed to automatically know how to use one of these things [Yubikey] WITHOUT the required software or setup instructions. Forget about Yubikey is what I then did.

Nicehash then proceeds to attempt to tell me that the State Drivers License I have provided to them for authentication is " with problems."
At this point I had had just about enough and informed Nicehash that NO THERE IS NOT ANYTHING WRONG with my state issued drivers license and that attempting to say such when it can be proven to be otherwise constitutes fraud.
I have to wonder just how many lost coins are " confiscated " under various types of manufactured pretext and fine print clauses in the crypto realm.
All the while my account is locked and I am unable to withdraw mined coins to a more sane and secure wallet such as Exodus.
Way back in their history, Nicehash made changes which attempted to have people use the nicehash wallet instead of mining to an external wallet. Now their language has gotten even more confusing as they have sort of reversed that position in now stating that essentially you should not keep any quantity of mined coins on the exchange wallet for any length of time because its just too much of a rick. Interesting the double speak. Everyone involved should read these pages. Whats not said is eben more important that what is said when your coins cannot be gotten out, possibly ever. What happens then to those coins I ask you?

https://www.nicehash.com/terms

https://www.nicehash.com/support/general-help/security/user-withdrawals-temporary-locked

https://www.nicehash.com/support/general-help/account/how-to-delete-a-nicehash-account

After I had been locked out of my account with about $ USD 45.00 in BTC mined up, I stopped using the pool. The obvious threat being that Nicehash, under the pretense of security was not allowing ME to withdraw my OWN coins that had been mined. The implication being that I might never get them based on all the collective nonsense they were sending me as regards their security page and something they refer to as
KYC, which is a fancy term for TOTAL SUBJECTIVITY and GROSS INCOMPETENCE.
Make no mistake this KYC thing is dangerous because the " Entities " running it have not the slightest qualification or clue as to what is a genuine document and who is a genuine person. Real Intelligence Agencies can make quick work of such things and in a reliable fashion.
The idea that is most dangerous about this " Trend " we are seeing is that some idiot on the other end of an internet connection has been given the power to say arbitrarily that you ID documents are somehow magically " Invalid."
This is of course total BS.
I cna tell you I have experienced this KYC thing a least 2 more times in relation to Cryto Exchanges that were nto worth the waste of time, and the process can go absolutely nowhere fast, and it simply feels dead wrong when its gone into. People need to stop and think about this one key point at length when someone tells you there is a problem with your ID DOCs which there is not. I am speaking about perfect photo images of said documents that can be read and referenced by the numbers with no difficilty. The fact that this is going on at all needs to be stopped COLD, and the subjectivity of it needs to be called into serious question. These people do not have the authority to make these kinds of judgements.

To add insult to injury for all the users who like myself and with a bad taste in their mouth, attempted to keep some kind of faith in Nicehash the whole time, because it once seemed to be such a good thing.....they are now reversing yet another position they took and saying they are going to pay back 100% of the hack. WTF?
I also got an email about ? WHY? I stopped mining recently at Nicehash.
Well Nicehash, its because you attempted to disallow my withdrawal of MY MINED COINS and to say that my ID documents were not in fact mine.
The fact that they keep re-stating that being involved with Crypto is " High Risk " is a gross understatement with respect mainly to their platform because the risk on other platforms does not even come close to the risk on Nicehash, or the bad treatment you may receive from them just for choosing to mine on their sordid pool.
There is something very underhanded about this type of language, this position, and this POOL.
Take a platform like " Nanopool " as a stark contrast where there is no worry in real terms whatsoever that you will be paid your mined earnings without all this grief,  harrassment and colossal amounts of wasted time and effort.
The worst thing is all the harassment for a long time member, and such is fully unacceptable.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Nicehash then proceeds to attempt to tell me that the State Drivers License I have provided to them for authentication is " with problems."

FWIW, having ran into that with other sites needing KYC such as Coinbase, the problem is that you supplied a low-rez picture of the ID. It was probably 300-DPI which is the default for most cameras and scanners. You need to scan it at least 600-DPI so the micro-printing on it can be clearly seen & read when the picture is viewed. Provide a high rez scan and they are happy.

Why NH does not have that info in a support FAQ - no idea.

In the case of a Michigan drivers license, the picture of the Mackinaw bridge (and other things) on them is not just drawn with lines - many parts are strings of micro-printing that is only legible under magnification.

[philipma1957]

This is a complicated issue KYC.

First off I can only speak for USA
Secondly I can only speak for New Jersey


Okay  your photo of your drivers license needs to be very high quality, I use a 5000 by 2200 shot on a 12megapixel camera.  I never have an issue with this.


Back to laws

 I know a lot of USA federal laws. --------- Lived in USA for 61 of 63 years 2 years over seas in the Navy.
 I know some of New Jersey laws. -------- My current state been here for more then 25 years.
 I know some of New York laws. --------- My first state I was born in NYC.

I have always been subject to USA fed tax law.
I have been subject to:
1) New York State tax law
2) then California state tax law
3)then New York State tax law
4) now New Jersey state tax law.

The rules change and they are not fair if you are a nobody little miner with 100 usd worth of coins. 

Why give all you id for 100 usd worth of coins?

KYC. should not be required for under 1000 a year in action on any exchange.

BUT it is and oh mother fucking well.

I am sorry they fucked you. All I can suggest for you is to deal with an established USA company such as PayPal or Coinbase.

Then buy coins there
or mine to a Coinbase address.

Be well aware you will be subject to kyc, but at least PayPal and Coinbase are more 'real' then nicehash will ever be.


Oh nicehash has posted they will be repaying the rest of the coins that were hacked back in 2017.

[Artemis3]

Why even suggest to mine to an online wallet from an exchange? People should use their own wallets and not anybody else's.

Mine to your own wallet, not to coinbase. That's absolutely wrong advise.

And Paypal is even worse, even mentioning is not getting anything of what Bitcoin is all about.

The only good wallet, is your own wallet. The rest is not yours, and they can do whatever they want with it.

Nicehash is garbage but everyone knows that. Also it is not a Bitcoin pool, so i wonder of the relevance of this thread here? Maybe this should go into service discussion or altcoin pools.

[mikeywith]

Mine to your own wallet, not to coinbase. That's absolutely wrong advise.

People need to pay the power bills, staff, maintenance, and many other expenses in fiat, so they have a few options.

1- Auto-payouts to a wallet and then send x amount to exchange to get fiat.
2- Auto-payouts to exchange, keep x and send the rest to own wallet.
3- Auto-payouts to exchange, exchange everything to $ in the order to ROI the fiat mining investment.

This is not wrong advice as you mentioned, it just doesn't fit your business model, don't get me wrong, it doesn't fit mine either and I would never do it, but I know many people who need to exchange their mining earnings to fiat every day, not everyone holds bitcoin, many miners are 100% fiat-focused and mining to their own wallet has no benfits whatsoever.

Also it is not a Bitcoin pool

Nicehash is indeed a Bitcoin pool related and fits here perfectly in general but it depends on the kind of discussion it could fit many other boards, it isn't a bitcoin-only pool/service but 90% of pools/services are not bitcoin-only anyway.


OP, nicehash is a shady pool service, it doesn't take a ton of research to reach that conclusion, what happened to you as a drop in the ocean, but it's good that you shared your story and I appreciate it, sorry you had to go through this and I hope you learned a lesson.

If you need to convert your mining earnings to fiat, please use a proper exchange like phill suggested and a proper mining pool like Viabtc, slushpool or f2pool (there are a few other great pools you just need to look around), if you want to hold most or all of your earnings in BTC then use your own wallet as Artemis3 suggested, you could use Electrum, Coinomi or any other trusted wallet which all comes down to your personal taste

[philipma1957]

Why even suggest to mine to an online wallet from an exchange? People should use their own wallets and not anybody else's.

Mine to your own wallet, not to coinbase. That's absolutely wrong advise.

And Paypal is even worse, even mentioning is not getting anything of what Bitcoin is all about.

The only good wallet, is your own wallet. The rest is not yours, and they can do whatever they want with it.

Nicehash is garbage but everyone knows that. Also it is not a Bitcoin pool, so i wonder of the relevance of this thread here? Maybe this should go into service discussion or altcoin pools.

if you live in the usa you can do that.

but you are subject to tax reporting.

which means you have to kyc your earnings to the federal tax man even if you never cash a coin.

Since you have to report your mining you may as well mine to Coinbase ,

you don't hodl at Coinbase .

but pretend it is .01 btc weekly to Coinbase.

you cash when it gets to 0.04 btc,

half goes to mining bills
the other half you can send to a private wallet to hodl.

my advice is to be legal if you are subject to usa law.

the rest of the world can ignore me.

[starcat]

The notion that you have to supply and exact mathematical PERFECT resolution on a DOC submitted is total BS. Do you think the CIA could not verify my identity based on what I turned in for this process? I can tell you in no uncertain terms they would have zero problems with it.
The other thing is the fast rejection, the language used in the matter, and the fact that you are not offered any reasonable " way out " once that pronouncement is made. Its like tthere both is and is not a real person on the other end of things, until you start registering complaints about the unprofessional way things are being handled. The bad protocol and high incompetence is what this poost is all about, and any suggestions that are making any justification for such are naive, misinformed, and showing a lack of perception.
The core meaning of this post is about the ineptitude of the way things are being done.
The thing about customer service in ANY industry always involves the need to have Highly Qualified people ON DUTY.
The fact that those people have to be paid is simply a fact, adn we live in an age where real customer service is gone out the window.
This is because everything has been monetized, and weaponized. The real truth is, that this trend has to be stopped because it will ultimately lead to the collapse of the systems involved. Anyone who has been dropped on a labyrinth telephone menu system that leads you in pointless circles should understand this very easily. What it comes down to is accountability, which is in major short supply these days.

Artemis, you are correct on several points. " Paypal is even worse " Excellent and true.
What they engineered, is higher fees if you mine to an external wallet way back when.
Somehow they had it all cocked that its to their advantage if you mine to the wallet that they supply you, and possibly some slight benefit to you as the fees are lower if you go with that plan.

Also this forum referring to users as " newbies " seems to relate to how much activity a user has had here.
I am not new to this forum or to crypto mining in the least, but I do not post very much.

The sad and interesting thing is the perfromance of the latest software on that pool is damn good. and I mean for the current conditions, it TICKS UP pretty damn quick. With the current rising value of BTC, and lack of other better options it got my attention.
Back in the day when many of us jumped into Crypto mining with no experience other than computer skills, Nicehash was fun and a good introduction into that world. The learning curve even for people with skills as systems builders can be considered pretty steep. Some people are more naturally inclined, and the abstractions and the code side of things makes sense to them. I am not a coder, but a hardware guy
Wishing all the hard core. old school miners the best.

Star

[Welsh]

The thing about customer service in ANY industry always involves the need to have Highly Qualified people ON DUTY.

Unfortunately, this is what the customer expects, but in the majority of industries the customer services people are lowly qualified, and can only solve the most basic of problems, otherwise they have to elevate it to higher up. This is why most customer services jobs are lowly paid, and don't require many qualifications or experience. Its considered a entry level job in most companies. Even big companies, that you would expect to have some sort of technical knowledge, do not employ those with technical knowledge. I'm hinting at technology, and computing based companies here.

The notion that you have to supply and exact mathematical PERFECT resolution on a DOC submitted is total BS. Do you think the CIA could not verify my identity based on what I turned in for this process? I can tell you in no uncertain terms they would have zero problems with it.

Comparing the FBI with a lowly qualified staff member on a exchange is quite different. FBI agents are usually trained, and highly qualified. Support workers are not, and they don't have the software or the know how to decipher low quality images. However, I do agree with you that having exact specifications for the resolution is annoying, and does cause some problems. In my opinion, as long as all documentation is included in the frame of the picture, and its of readable quality, then there shouldn't be much of an issue with the resolution.

The other thing is the fast rejection, the language used in the matter, and the fact that you are not offered any reasonable " way out " once that pronouncement is made. Its like tthere both is and is not a real person on the other end of things, until you start registering complaints about the unprofessional way things are being handled. The bad protocol and high incompetence is what this poost is all about, and any suggestions that are making any justification for such are naive, misinformed, and showing a lack of perception.

This leads me to think they are using automated software, to look at the documentation supplied, and either rejecting it or accepting it automatically. This is probably why they require a certain resolution with the pictures, because the software is quite particular about it, and its AI will not be able to tell if its uploaded in different resolutions.

[philipma1957]

The thing about customer service in ANY industry always involves the need to have Highly Qualified people ON DUTY.

Unfortunately, this is what the customer expects, but in the majority of industries the customer services people are lowly qualified, and can only solve the most basic of problems, otherwise they have to elevate it to higher up. This is why most customer services jobs are lowly paid, and don't require many qualifications or experience. Its considered a entry level job in most companies. Even big companies, that you would expect to have some sort of technical knowledge, do not employ those with technical knowledge. I'm hinting at technology, and computing based companies here.

The notion that you have to supply and exact mathematical PERFECT resolution on a DOC submitted is total BS. Do you think the CIA could not verify my identity based on what I turned in for this process? I can tell you in no uncertain terms they would have zero problems with it.

Comparing the FBI with a lowly qualified staff member on a exchange is quite different. FBI agents are usually trained, and highly qualified. Support workers are not, and they don't have the software or the know how to decipher low quality images. However, I do agree with you that having exact specifications for the resolution is annoying, and does cause some problems. In my opinion, as long as all documentation is included in the frame of the picture, and its of readable quality, then there shouldn't be much of an issue with the resolution.

The other thing is the fast rejection, the language used in the matter, and the fact that you are not offered any reasonable " way out " once that pronouncement is made. Its like tthere both is and is not a real person on the other end of things, until you start registering complaints about the unprofessional way things are being handled. The bad protocol and high incompetence is what this poost is all about, and any suggestions that are making any justification for such are naive, misinformed, and showing a lack of perception.

This leads me to think they are using automated software, to look at the documentation supplied, and either rejecting it or accepting it automatically. This is probably why they require a certain resolution with the pictures, because the software is quite particular about it, and its AI will not be able to tell if its uploaded in different resolutions.

What is the downside for doing this?

Nothing if their AI rejects your info you lose your coins.

I just had a new KYC issue with a rebate company  "couponcabin".  Decided to kyc me.  So what was the problem?  My NJ,USA drivers license was expired due to covid-19.  It expired on the 30th of sept 2020  NJ gave me an extension via email. I printed a few copies and put one in the glovebox of my car.

So I tell all this to the people at coupon cabin they say send me a copy of your passport. I say no can do I have my drivers license with a document from NJ that extends it to 12-31-2020.  I say to them I have 3 previous drivers license from NJ as they let you keep the old ones I can send them.  They switch tactics an say send my a copy of your birth certificate which I did do.

So driver's license
water statement
birth certificate

five or six emails and they set me back up with my rebates.

Why do all this.  I earn 80-125 a month in rebates due to mining gear purchases on ebay.  Coupon cabin appears to work best for me.  So this is over 1000 a year.  I either had the best AI in the world or I had real staff people.

[Welsh]

They may have real humans behind the screen, I've certainly not used them personally, but the description of the problems faced sounding like AI was processing the the information. They could well be using a combination of the two, sometimes certain companies don't like employees handling sensitive data, and therefore opt to software to verify certain things. I believe this is done within some banks. Obviously, the opposite is true when you look higher up the chain of employment, and usually everything is human reviewed.

What is the downside for doing this?

There's definitely both an upside, and downside to using automated software to process these sort of things, but technology, in particular AI emphasis has grown significantly over the years, and more, and more companies are starting to implement it where they can, and not just tech related companies either. Obviously, the AI is limited to the programmers skill level, and there's almost always a frustrating experience to be had, but I'll be honest peoples intelligence also varies, and I've definitely had frustrating moments with support teams.