JPMorgan - bitcoin may find an additional demand of $600B

[as.exchange]

Yes, they say that for some purpose. Right now the market is going crazy again with a price of 20,000 USD. After the increase in the price of bitcoins in the market, they may sell their bitcoins so much that the price falls again. Then they buy back at a cheap price. Isn't it very easy to fry prices like that for those well-known companies and those who feel the impact are new buyers, and buyers of coins like me. Be wise in your attitude on every issue that develops, the market may fry hot issues but they turn out to be zonk.

Absolutely, now it's just FOMO + HYPE + every week news about some X buying Y million / billions worth of BTC. That's quite pretty clear about what is gonna happen next. For sure, BTC might well go even higher than $22.5k, but... eventually those who bought it will start fixing their profits in US$.

just be vigilant in the market esp if you have money on the line. dont believe all the things that you are reading or speculation from "well-known" personalities. be alert of what may or may not happen. if you do want to secure your portfolio, you can sell some of it, and you know for sure, you are already making profit. greed is the common cause of our losses here. so better come up with a decision that you will not regret afterwards.
we will see huge numbers in play here, but the question is, will that really happen? so in either scenario, you should have your own strategies ready to implement with.

I agree, but don't forget that selling too early also can be part of greed bias Imagine you sell @ $22.5k, and then never see BTC lower than $30k in your life... I believe that's not the case, but that's the thinking of newly fleeing "traders/investors" who enter the market now @ ATH.

[el kaka22]

Ruffer bought 744 million dollars worth of bitcoin in November for example, and as soon as this was made news, the price skyrocket to above 20k price as well. This wasn't direct as you can see, why? Because if it was Ruffer that made it over 20k+ that would mean they would have done it in November, they didn't buy yesterday, they bought in November so a month ago, but the price reacted to this news yesterday, which means there is a bigger correlation to price increases in bitcoin to the "news" of big deals instead of the big deals themselves.

These kinds of moves will surely increase bitcoin market cap, maybe it will do it a month later, maybe it will do it that day, but whenever something big happens that doesn't change much but the news of it changes a lot.

[Lucius]

Ruffer bought 744 million dollars worth of bitcoin in November for example, and as soon as this was made news, the price skyrocket to above 20k price as well.

Any news like this is undeniably positive, but Grayscale has been buying much larger quantities of BTC all this year, and MicroStrategy and its investments have not had an instant impact on price even though they were released in real time. After all, this is the first time I've heard of this - I haven't read anywhere on the forum that anyone posted this news.

Why would the purchase of 45 000 BTC be anything more significant than all the other investments measured in billions of $ throughout this year? The only thing that comes to my mind is that this news has had an impact on the crypto market in Europe - so far it has been more or less focused on the US big companies.

[Vishnu.Reang]

Any news like this is undeniably positive, but Grayscale has been buying much larger quantities of BTC all this year, and MicroStrategy and its investments have not had an instant impact on price even though they were released in real time. After all, this is the first time I've heard of this - I haven't read anywhere on the forum that anyone posted this news.

Why would the purchase of 45 000 BTC be anything more significant than all the other investments measured in billions of $ throughout this year? The only thing that comes to my mind is that this news has had an impact on the crypto market in Europe - so far it has been more or less focused on the US big companies.

I don't think that Grayscale/MicroStrategy are purchasing these coins in one go. They may have spread their purchases over many months. Because there is only limited liquidity at the Bitcoin markets, and hundreds of millions of $$$, if poured within a short period can cause a severe supply crunch. Also, there is a lot of trade happening outside the major exchanges. For example, the Chinese authorities recently dumped a large stash (which they seized from the PlusToken scammers).  

[South Park]

A  JPMorgan statement says bitcoin may find an additional demand of $600B read more...
This is due to the recent purchase amounting to $100M of bitcoin by MassMutual a 169 years old insurance firm in Massachusetts.
MassMutual is also listed as the top 7 Best Life Insurance Companies of 2020 in the US   
Due to this event, other institutions could follow the steps made by MassMutal, which will greatly increase the demand for bitcoin that consequently increase its value to break the 20k mark. What is your take on this?

It is nice to see that they are finally accepting the inevitable truth, we know this was going to happen, the banking industry tried to fight bitcoin at every opportunity and they realized they cannot win so now they are joining hoping to obtain great profits and at the same time to try to subvert the market, but while they will certainly get profits they will not succeed in subverting the market and they will be the ones subverted by bitcoin, it will not be fast but I think it is inevitable.

[kpierce77]

Ruffer bought 744 million dollars worth of bitcoin in November for example, and as soon as this was made news, the price skyrocket to above 20k price as well. This wasn't direct as you can see, why? Because if it was Ruffer that made it over 20k+ that would mean they would have done it in November, they didn't buy yesterday, they bought in November so a month ago, but the price reacted to this news yesterday, which means there is a bigger correlation to price increases in bitcoin to the "news" of big deals instead of the big deals themselves.

These kinds of moves will surely increase bitcoin market cap, maybe it will do it a month later, maybe it will do it that day, but whenever something big happens that doesn't change much but the news of it changes a lot.

Because demand is very much influenced by people's knowledge, if people don't know the news then demand will remain stagnant to a certain level, cmiw. The last big purchase had a big enough impact because it was quite hype, where big parties allocate large funds to bitcoin, so people will think that bitcoin has a better value than what they think, so indirectly demand will increase drastically

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Wow.

I'm quite familiar with MassMutual (by name at least; I'm not one of their customers), and this is quite surprising that they'd be bullish enough on bitcoin to plop that kind of money down on a risky bet--but I'm starting to think that these large corporations that have been getting into bitcoin may know something bad is looming in the economy.  Specifically I'm thinking that the USD is in danger--and to anyone who's been following the rampant money-printing that's been going on for years now that shouldn't come as a shock, but somehow I'm starting to think that there might be an impending inflation crisis coming sooner rather than later.

There's no other reason I can think of for companies like MassMutual to be getting into bitcoin.  They're not in the business of gambling on extremely volatile assets like bitcoin, so it makes me scratch my head a bit when I read stories like this.  It also makes me shudder just a little.

[fillippone]

Wow.
 I'm starting to think that there might be an impending inflation crisis coming sooner rather than later.

While I think the system is screwed and CB's are playing a dangerous game, printing money and artificially distorting markets; I also think that US Government knows perfectly how the USD dollar a crucial part of US Success as world leading super power.
They wont be caught offguard by a Dollar inflation in any way, believe me.

[AndySt]

Ruffer bought 744 million dollars worth of bitcoin in November for example, and as soon as this was made news, the price skyrocket to above 20k price as well. This wasn't direct as you can see, why? Because if it was Ruffer that made it over 20k+ that would mean they would have done it in November, they didn't buy yesterday, they bought in November so a month ago, but the price reacted to this news yesterday, which means there is a bigger correlation to price increases in bitcoin to the "news" of big deals instead of the big deals themselves.
These kinds of moves will surely increase bitcoin market cap, maybe it will do it a month later, maybe it will do it that day, but whenever something big happens that doesn't change much but the news of it changes a lot.

Because demand is very much influenced by people's knowledge, if people don't know the news then demand will remain stagnant to a certain level, cmiw. The last big purchase had a big enough impact because it was quite hype, where big parties allocate large funds to bitcoin, so people will think that bitcoin has a better value than what they think, so indirectly demand will increase drastically

Here we can rather talk about indirect demand from other major market players, and not about the euphoria of a crowd of small investors. It is a little alarming that the current wave-like movements of the bitcoin exchange rate strongly resemble the events of 2017 - in 2017, since March, bitcoin has risen in price by 19 thousand, and this year since March, the price increase was 19.9 thousand. how it ended in the end, i think it is not necessary to remind much, however, unlike the current period, there was not such a large entry into the market of institutional investors, which allows us to hope not for such a strong correction later.

[Lucius]

I don't think that Grayscale/MicroStrategy are purchasing these coins in one go. They may have spread their purchases over many months. Because there is only limited liquidity at the Bitcoin markets, and hundreds of millions of $$$, if poured within a short period can cause a severe supply crunch. Also, there is a lot of trade happening outside the major exchanges.

When it comes to Ruffer, the amount they bought was 45 000 BTC (although I don’t know if they bought it all at once), but the first purchase MicroStrategy made was $250 million where the average price of BTC was around $11 000, which amounted to 21 454 BTC. Shortly afterwards, another purchase of nearly $200 million followed - but all of this caused nothing like a recent pump.

Given the hundreds of thousands of BTC bought by large investors over the past 6 months, I want to say that 45 000 BTC is not something that can make that much of a difference.

For example, the Chinese authorities recently dumped a large stash (which they seized from the PlusToken scammers).

This news has not been confirmed, it is a rumor, and it will be difficult to find out the truth of what exactly happened. If a sale did occur, it occurred via OTC and had no impact on price.

Matthew Graham, a blockchain-focused investor based in China, corroborated this sentiment. He said that from reading the court documents, it is likely that the coins were “mostly sold,” so there’s no need for FUD.

[exstasie]

Ruffer bought 744 million dollars worth of bitcoin in November for example, and as soon as this was made news, the price skyrocket to above 20k price as well.

Any news like this is undeniably positive, but Grayscale has been buying much larger quantities of BTC all this year, and MicroStrategy and its investments have not had an instant impact on price even though they were released in real time.

Of course Microstrategy's buys impacted price. You can't buy 40K coins in this market without moving it. Coinbase was literally routing orders through exchanges because there was not enough OTC supply. That would have pushed spot prices up.

Even if it was all done OTC, Microstrategy buying up all available OTC supply would have forced other OTC buyers to buy on exchanges, indirectly pushing prices up.

Grayscale is also only acquiring them on behalf of clients much like Ruffer. If Ruffer had gone through GBTC, that order would have represented a significant chunk of all the BTC Grayscale placed this year.

[Rengga Jati]

Many more demands will really help increase the price of Bitcoin. This will lead to the necessity of the BTC to be as high as what we really expect.
However, will it really pump the price? We may not know exactly but at least, it will add to the demand for the BTC.

We are waiting for many years for the institutional investors to come and buy into Bitcoin.

You are right, right now, many institutions, industries, and also other companies are opened tot eh information, utility, and also trust in Bitcoin. Many of them are starting to reach and accept BTC. this is actually a really good situation because this will make a positive uptrend in the market. However, if it will be going to the market correction, will be they in common condition?

[Sithara007]

Of course Microstrategy's buys impacted price. You can't buy 40K coins in this market without moving it. Coinbase was literally routing orders through exchanges because there was not enough OTC supply. That would have pushed spot prices up.

Even if it was all done OTC, Microstrategy buying up all available OTC supply would have forced other OTC buyers to buy on exchanges, indirectly pushing prices up.

Grayscale is also only acquiring them on behalf of clients much like Ruffer. If Ruffer had gone through GBTC, that order would have represented a significant chunk of all the BTC Grayscale placed this year.

It is still possible to purchase Bitcoin from OTC sources, rather than doing it through exchanges. But given the limited liquidity, it is not possible to purchase tens of thousands of coins in one go. I checked the post from Lucius, and it looks as if they made a series of small purchases spread over a period of many months. Anyway, we can be sure about one thing. The additional supply in the market has almost dried up.

[LogitechMouse]

What is your take on this?

I may find it quite ironic because of the fact that JPMorgan is one of the best enemies of Bitcoin back in the days where Bitcoin is starting to boom .
Now they are supporting the thing that they are against with.

With regards to the institutions investing into Bitcoin, we have waited this for a long time already and now is the time for them to invest and support Bitcoin. This institutions will play a huge role towards the price movement of Bitcoin. It may go up or down depending on them since they got a very large Bitcoin holdings. I may see this as a good news for now but in a few months this will not be a good thing as they can sell the Bitcoins that they are holding.

[exstasie]

Of course Microstrategy's buys impacted price. You can't buy 40K coins in this market without moving it. Coinbase was literally routing orders through exchanges because there was not enough OTC supply. That would have pushed spot prices up.

Even if it was all done OTC, Microstrategy buying up all available OTC supply would have forced other OTC buyers to buy on exchanges, indirectly pushing prices up.

Grayscale is also only acquiring them on behalf of clients much like Ruffer. If Ruffer had gone through GBTC, that order would have represented a significant chunk of all the BTC Grayscale placed this year.

It is still possible to purchase Bitcoin from OTC sources, rather than doing it through exchanges. But given the limited liquidity, it is not possible to purchase tens of thousands of coins in one go. I checked the post from Lucius, and it looks as if they made a series of small purchases spread over a period of many months.

Yes, I'm talking about the cumulative effect of those buys. Price is based on supply and demand. You can't remove 40K coins from the supply without affecting price.

Plus, we're talking about very big buys. Their initial investment was ~20K coins (based on back of the envelope math) over a 5-day period in August. https://www.coindesk.com/microstrategy-used-coinbase-for-massive-bitcoin-purchase

[Sithara007]

Yes, I'm talking about the cumulative effect of those buys. Price is based on supply and demand. You can't remove 40K coins from the supply without affecting price.

Plus, we're talking about very big buys. Their initial investment was ~20K coins (based on back of the envelope math) over a 5-day period in August. https://www.coindesk.com/microstrategy-used-coinbase-for-massive-bitcoin-purchase

That's true. The cumulative impact from these purchases are going to linger around for some time. And now the situation has been completely reversed, from what we had during the beginning of 2020. At the start of this year, there were indications that there was an oversupply of Bitcoins in the market. As a result, BTC was struggling to keep above the $10,000 per coin level. The situation has reversed now, as it looks as if a supply crunch is there in the exchanges.

[vaultman]

As I constantly say that such news will appear more and more often, since all prerequisites lead to this. Bitcoin will surely only grow in price, many billionaires will be more and more positively disposed towards investing in bitcoin, and indeed in cryptocurrency in general, not only in bitcoin. Many people are herd instincts, and billionaires are no exception. Many of them will look at other large investors and also invest without hesitation.