Receiving and Sending BTC Anonymously?

[jerry0]

I have a nano ledger where I store my coins.  I previously had used electrum to store my coins on the computer.



Now when I receive btc, I would use whatever is the receiving address that is shown on my nano ledger before I copy and paste it to the site that I am receiving btc from.  I don't believe I ever reused a receiving address more than once with the nano ledger s as I get a receiving address each time.  With electrum however, back then I use to repeat using the same receiving address many times not knowing it wasn't good for privacy.



Now let say I want to receive a tiny amount of btc but I want it to go to an anonymous wallet and not my main wallet which is the nano ledger s. The thing is if I get a new receiving address on my nano ledger and btc is sent to me... that address is still linked to my nano ledger correct?  Since the amount of btc is added to my total btc balance? What about electrum?  Now if you use another nano ledger or use the same nano ledger and create a new seed... or use electrum but create a new seed with no wallet history...that certainly would make a difference since it has no transaction history right?



Let say I receive 0.0005 btc to make it simple in the nano ledger or less than 20 dollars.



Then let say I sent 0.0005 btc minus the sending btc fee to someone thus less than 20 dollars cash.  I read there is a history in the blockchain of the transaction but does it ever link to the person?  Doesn't it link due to change addresses or is that only with electrum?  So if it is the same nano ledger seed you are using, then yes... if not... then no?  Because if someone receives btc from a site and trades it for 20 dollars with someone else... is that even anonymous or not?  Now if you use another nano ledger or use the same nano ledger and create a new seed... or use electrum but create a new seed with no wallet history...that certainly would make a difference since it has no transaction history right?



The thing is isn't the issue with receiving and sending btc anonymously an issue still? I heard about vpn's but those are not even good enough right?  I always heard about TOR and mixers but don't have a clue about it.

[Despairo]

AFAIK electrum do have multiple address that can be used to receive similar like ledger nano, you can view on "addresses". It's true receiving with different address will have better privacy but it doesn't mean fully anonymous since chainanalysis can still track your parent address, it just harder to track for anyone who doesn't have enough knowledge.

When you send your BTC, the address you used as received address will visible when you create a transactions, it doesn't use different address. I'd say VPN doesn't protect your privacy so using or not are same. You may need to learn how TOR and Mixer work, but if you need to use it correctly in able to protect your privacy.

[nc50lc]

The thing is if I get a new receiving address on my nano ledger and btc is sent to me... that address is still linked to my nano ledger correct?  Since the amount of btc is added to my total btc balance?

It could be linked though the public blockchain if you've spent multiple inputs together in one transaction, or you've been receiving funds from same source (e.g.: same Exchange); etc.
It could be linked by those examples, not because it's "added to your total balance".
The wallet is just summing-up all of the available UTXOs your keys can spend then showing it as balance but it doesn't mean that it's mixing them up together.

However since both Ledger Live and Electrum are relying on servers, the server that you're connected to may be able to link all of your transactions.
Your best choice to privately use Bitcoin with Ledger Nano is to use Electrum and run your own server.
You don't actually have good privacy while using an SPV wallet.

[tranthidung]

Let's use Wasabi wallet but make sure you read their tutorial carefully on how to use inputs, anonymity set, outputs and practice it appropriately.

• Download: https://wasabiwallet.io/#download. Don't trust, verify
• FAQ: https://wasabiwallet.io/#faq
• Some notes from theymos in [Guide] Decent mixing methods

[bitmover]

The thing is if I get a new receiving address on my nano ledger and btc is sent to me... that address is still linked to my nano ledger correct?  Since the amount of btc is added to my total btc balance?

It could be linked though the public blockchain if you've spent multiple inputs together in one transaction, or you've been receiving funds from same source (e.g.: same Exchange); etc.
It could be linked by those examples, not because it's "added to your total balance".
The wallet is just summing-up all of the available UTXOs your keys can spend then showing it as balance but it doesn't mean that it's mixing them up together.

A new fresh address is not linked to your wallet. What makes the connection between your address is spending multiple inputs from different addresses together.

Let's suppose you receive 0.1 BTC from binance in address A , 0.2 btc from a friend in
addres B.

if you send 0.3 btc back to binance in the same transaction, there will be a proof in the blockchain that the addresses A and B belong to the same person as they were spwnt togethwr in the same wallet.

so, get a waller which allows you to control your coins. this feature is called Coin Contr.
electrum and ledger live have this feature.

[NeuroticFish]

I just noticed that OP made this topic basically twice, with small variations. I'll cross post my answer just in case the other thread gets removed:

Example would be this.  Imagine a site or someone send you 20 dollars worth of btc to your spare nano ledger wallet and not your main one.  Or it could be a new electrum seed wallet which has no transaction history.  Then you send that full amount of 20 dollars worth of btc to someone else.  

Does that transaction still link to you or not?  The thing is if it's a wallet that has zero transactions, it wouldn't right?  But that is only if you TOR which I keep hearing about?  Again all I heard is Tor for privacy but do not have a clue about it.

If you have other addresses in your wallet the Electrum server will know that the addresses are linked.
If you don't hide your IP and connect to the same Electrum server, even if you have different wallets holding the funds, the Electrum server will know that the addresses are linked.
If you use ToR you will hide your IP, but, as you see, it may not be enough.

It's also public knowledge that chain analysis companies do own some of the Electrum servers (and we don't know which ones).


So if you don't want the addresses get linked together, even if you use different addresses for different goals, Electrum (and any other SPV wallet!) may not be for you (unless you learn how to get yourself a private Electrum server).

The conclusion is pretty much what @nc50lc also said: SPV wallets are not for privacy, no matter it's Electrum, Ledger Live, Mycelium, Sparrow and so on...
OP, if you want privacy, learn to run your own node, your SPV server and maybe your block explorer too.

[pakhitheboss]

Let's use Wasabi wallet but make sure you read their tutorial carefully on how to use inputs, anonymity set, outputs and practice it appropriately.

• Download: https://wasabiwallet.io/#download. Don't trust, verify
• FAQ: https://wasabiwallet.io/#faq
• Some notes from theymos in [Guide] Decent mixing methods

As said by @tranthidung use wasabi wallet as it is a privacy based Bitcoin wallet. You can also connect your ledger wallet with wasabi wallet. They have a comprehensive guide related to it. Here is the link - https://docs.wasabiwallet.io/using-wasabi/ColdWasabi.html

[jerry0]

Okay that example of below makes sense.  I recall that was what was mentioned of electrum back then below.


A new fresh address is not linked to your wallet. What makes the connection between your address is spending multiple inputs from different addresses together.

Let's suppose you receive 0.1 BTC from binance in address A , 0.2 btc from a friend in
addres B.

if you send 0.3 btc back to binance in the same transaction, there will be a proof in the blockchain that the addresses A and B belong to the same person as they were spwnt togethwr in the same wallet.



So assuming you have a nano ledger which has your main coins for storage such as btc... and say you have electrum on your pc which you used a while back which has ton of transactions, is there a way to remain private where a site that doesn't require KYC or someone send me a tiny bit of btc... let say just 0.0005.  Then I send that 0.0005 btc minus the sending fee to someone else's wallet?  


That means using even a new nano ledger with a new seed or create a new electrum wallet with a new seed won't cut it... is that correct?  


I don't have a clue about wasabi wallet.  But do people here even use it?  There is no point really of this then right since it would seem complicated?

[witcher_sense]

Let's use Wasabi wallet but make sure you read their tutorial carefully on how to use inputs, anonymity set, outputs and practice it appropriately.

• Download: https://wasabiwallet.io/#download. Don't trust, verify
• FAQ: https://wasabiwallet.io/#faq
• Some notes from theymos in [Guide] Decent mixing methods

It seems that you haven't been following the recent news regarding Wasabi Wallet and their CoinJoin coordinator. In a nutshell, from now on, Wasabi Wallet devs will be surveilling all the inputs willing to participate in CoinJoin transactions, they will be analyzing the history of all your transactions, and if they find something that may harm their company or reputation, they will refuse service to you, or even report your transactions to law enforcement agencies. Moreover, in order to analyze the history of transactions and receive information about the “cleanliness" of UTXOs, they will hire a blockchain surveillance company, which is, by the way, will be sponsored by the fees users pay to the CoinJoin coordinator to avoid being surveilled!

Visit this topic to read more: The default Wasabi Wallet coordinator will start censoring "illegal" UTXOs

[NeuroticFish]

That means using even a new nano ledger with a new seed or create a new electrum wallet with a new seed won't cut it... is that correct?  

1. If you use it "normally" there's a chance that the transactions will get linked.
2. If you make a new seed in an Electrum under TOR, probably it won't be linked to the rest.
3. If you use your own Electrum server, then it won't matter you have a new wallet with new seed
or a new address in an old wallet and you take good care to not use it together with other addresses from that wallet,
in both these cases you're good (cannot be linked with your old stuff).

Obviously [2] is easiest for you. (You can look for Tails OS, it should contain an Electrum already set up with TOR, just you cannot verify it so I suggest you use it only with small funds.)

I don't have a clue about wasabi wallet.  But do people here even use it?  There is no point really of this then right since it would seem complicated?

Wasabi is not bad, but my personal opinion is that's not for you, at least not yet, until you understand more here and there.
I've never used Wasabi. Imho you can mix better with actual mixers; imho you don't need each and every input mixed, so using Wasabi on a daily basis is overkill. Also at Wasabi you pay a (tiny) fee for the mixing (more than just the tx fee). And, as a horror story, this user has been using Wasabi without enough knowledge (well, Electrum too), and now he's missing money, he's lost and it's not easy to help him.