Advertising and shilling on Bitcointalk

[Lucius]

That's the bad part of all this, though I'm assuming these shills are posting in the Press section?  If I'm not mistaken, that one has been full of spammy members for a long time now, and I don't think there's been much discussion going on in it for a long time. 

How about you look at the Press Board and see for yourself? There are no more paid posts on that board for some time, nor will there be in the future, and that includes the Bitcoin discussion.

There was a recent discussion about it, and you participated in it - but such discussions lead nowhere, because instead of reporting such a problematic post, someone is asking for the board to close, and we all know that the chances of that are almost nil.

Proposal: Rename the "Press" board to "Spammer of the Month" board

[Pmalek]

Again I applaud what you did--though I wish you'd name names.

Thanks for the compliments!
I decided not to do it for several reasons. I already mentioned that I didn't want to hand the information over to those willing to partake in such activities. Showing the names, would make their job of finding those willing to pay for their campaigns much easier.
Also, we don't really know what exactly they would be prepared to pay for. They have expressed an interest in discussing the proposed service, one site did mention a price for bringing them traffic, but nothing more. Maybe they would expect some sort of quality in the posts and not plain and simple copy-pasted spam.

[Welsh]

Also, we don't really know what exactly they would be prepared to pay for. They have expressed an interest in discussing the proposed service, one site did mention a price for bringing them traffic, but nothing more. Maybe they would expect some sort of quality in the posts and not plain and simple copy-pasted spam.

Good initiative, plus knowing that they pay for these services doesn't actually prevent them from doing it. So, even if we knew who paid for advertisers to shill repeatedly, then it probably wouldn't stop the posts. Plus, as I mentioned briefly before expressing an interest in advertising doesn't necessarily mean they want people to spam for them.

They might not be familiar with the rules of Bitcointalk, although they're probably aware of the forum. They might thinking that they're advertising in accordance to the rules, e.g signatures. Although, I know I'm giving them a lot of the benefit of the doubt here, they probably don't care as they only care about traffic, not how your getting that traffic as long as its legitimate traffic.

[Pmalek]

It's almost the end of January, so I took another look at my marketing email address that I used to bombard crypto websites with my offer to shill their brand and articles. I wanted to see if any other interesting offers were submitted. However, that wasn't the case. Those 7 examples in OP are it.

[PrimeNumber7]

They might not be familiar with the rules of Bitcointalk, although they're probably aware of the forum. They might thinking that they're advertising in accordance to the rules, e.g signatures. Although, I know I'm giving them a lot of the benefit of the doubt here, they probably don't care as they only care about traffic, not how your getting that traffic as long as its legitimate traffic.

I can’t see the exact text of what the OP sent these sites, but I don’t think creating posts that cite a particular site is against any rule that I can think of. Most of the backlink spam that I report is either off topic, nerco bumping a thread, or is a very low value thread/post.

If someone were to create threads from articles at a particular site, that is otherwise interesting, I don’t think any rules would be broken. The forum rules follow libertarian ideology, so the fact that someone is getting paid to create a post is almost never going to, in itself, break a rule (it may serve as the basis for the motivation of someone breaking a rule, which may be a factor that results in a harsher penalty).

[Pmalek]

If someone were to create threads from articles at a particular site, that is otherwise interesting, I don’t think any rules would be broken.

Me neither but the problem is that those who engage in these kind of activities usually can't create any quality of their own. It's usually just copy-pasted materials with no inputs or feedback from OP whatsoever. The only goal is to place that link in the post and tick that as work done on your list. And then you do that as fast and as much as you can... Thread starters don't even go back to check the comments made about the post, engage in discussion, or answer questions. They don't have time for that and don't want to do it because new links need to be spammed. 

[Pmalek]

Bump

[OgNasty]

So, the next time you see a specific member or a group of people shilling a particular brand or 3rd-party website aggressively, it is quite possible that they are paid for it. 

This is not necessarily always the case though. For example, I’ve shilled for Tesla products like the Cybertruck and Powerwall without being compensated by Tesla. You could make the argument I did it to farm referrals, but that’s a flimsy case. Sometimes people just like products and want to share them. Recently I also made a thread that could be construed as shilling for the Sondors Metacycle. I really was just presenting what I believed to be a good opportunity to get a fun electric vehicle for a number of reasons (inflation and manufacturing price increases/rarity). Believe me, or was this just another paid post?  .

[Vaculin]

The goal was to find out if crypto media outlets are interested in paying to have their brand and articles mentioned and discussed on Bitcointalk. Of all the emails I sent and forms I filled out, 7 sites showed an interest in working with me (unfortunately, I deleted one of those emails before I could take a screenshot of it), they wanted to discuss the pricing, and services offered by my fake advertisement team.

Of course we wouldn't be surprised by the results you get from that survey because site owners know that their web traffic will greatly increase when ads about their site or article are shared in places with a higher reading interest base like bitcointalk. Those who are willing to pay are those who know what benefit they will get from hiring the shill. However since this forum doesn't allow shill activity, the war drums will start beating and I'm sure there will be more and more reports about them to the moderators.

Shilling may be a good thing for those site owners who are desperate to make profits but here in bitcointalk, shilling should always be avoided, otherwise you will be reported and may be banned. But staying long here in the forum, i have come to witness a lot of members still do shilling their own coins, no wonder why others took the risk because they also make money from it. But if you want to make your stay in the forum more profitable and valuable, learn to avoid those things that can only give you demerits as it will only make your account suffer in the future.

[Pmalek]

Believe me, or was this just another paid post?  .

The part of my post you quoted doesn't say that if you notice someone shill something, it's definitely paid shilling. It says that it's quite possible that it is. I believe that still to be true. Of course that doesn't apply to all sorts of products, gear, or services. No one would believe that Elon Musk pays you a fortune every month to advertise his Cybertruck on Bitcointalk. That wouldn't make sense. If I purchased an excellent smartphone or a computer I am really happy with and I made those feelings public, it goes without saying that Dell and Samsung aren't paying me for advertising campaigns.

On the other hand, if I started shilling a suspicious crypto wallet, casino, or a relatively unfamiliar/unpopular service or product, there might be some ulterior motives behind all that. So it always depends, what is shilled and who does it.   

[cabron]

Believe me, or was this just another paid post?  .

The part of my post you quoted doesn't say that if you notice someone shill something, it's definitely paid shilling. It says that it's quite possible that it is. I believe that still to be true. Of course that doesn't apply to all sorts of products, gear, or services. No one would believe that Elon Musk pays you a fortune every month to advertise his Cybertruck on Bitcointalk. That wouldn't make sense. If I purchased an excellent smartphone or a computer I am really happy with and I made those feelings public, it goes without saying that Dell and Samsung aren't paying me for advertising campaigns.

On the other hand, if I started shilling a suspicious crypto wallet, casino, or a relatively unfamiliar/unpopular service or product, there might be some ulterior motives behind all that. So it always depends, what is shilled and who does it.   

Not all but certainly there were already caught in the past about shilling a crypto news site which every time there is a new articles posted, the user also post part of the article and state his opinion and right below is the reference link of the crypto news site. I believe it was beincrypto site. Every business wants to have traffic to convert as clients  on  their businesses and most of them find Bitcointalk a  valuable place to advertise. Traffic in  bitcointalk makes money, the  sig campaigns in the forum proves it.

The fact that you offer your shill services to them, makes it convenient to them too.

[Viscore]

So, the next time you see a specific member or a group of people shilling a particular brand or 3rd-party website aggressively, it is quite possible that they are paid for it. 

This is not necessarily always the case though. For example, I’ve shilled for Tesla products like the Cybertruck and Powerwall without being compensated by Tesla. You could make the argument I did it to farm referrals, but that’s a flimsy case. Sometimes people just like products and want to share them. Recently I also made a thread that could be construed as shilling for the Sondors Metacycle. I really was just presenting what I believed to be a good opportunity to get a fun electric vehicle for a number of reasons (inflation and manufacturing price increases/rarity). Believe me, or was this just another paid post?  .

I guess we can really sense it if the poster is shilling because he was paid to advertise it, or its just his own will to advertise what he thinks other should know about it as well. But as long as shilling is there, the promotion is there, it will always be against the forum rules. So if we can create post without shilling aside, i think that way will be safer and won't create complications in the future.

[Pmalek]

But as long as shilling is there, the promotion is there, it will always be against the forum rules. So if we can create post without shilling aside, i think that way will be safer and won't create complications in the future.

Advertising and shilling is not against forum rules. If that were the case, we wouldn't have signature campaigns and other promotional activities. Aggressive advertisement of a site or service that creates spam whose purpose is only mentioning the brand without creating any quality for the forum is not allowed. Continuously advertising in other people's threads (especially if it's off-topic) is also forbidden. 

[GxSTxV]

The good thing in bitcointalk is the freedom of publicity and advertising for any services so people can discover all the differences and try them by their own with full responsibility. But sometimes you should be carful as OP mentioned that some high rank memebers are getting paid to shill for certain services even that they might be kind of sus or not offering good quality service. Even scam cases sometimes as we saw many times.
And for the annoying advertisements where new members are spamming every section or threads i think these posts are being deleted by admins and if it's keeps appearing from same memeber he gets a permanent ban. So the thing everyone should do is being smart and do research before doing or using something on bitcointalk no matter how good it looks

[AicecreaME]

This post has been here for months but it's still relevant. Indeed, anyone promoting a gambling website or casino here are possibly paid for having an advertisement to encourage other forum members to join and try. With your experiment, you just proved that those gambling website or casino owners still have interest in bitcointalk to be their bridge to find potential clients. After all, a lot of members here are really into gambling.

It's good to see random checking such as this to know and verify whether if something could possibly happen or occuring already in the forum. This just make the claim of some that there are accounts existing here not really to share their first-hand experience of the site, but to advertise so that the casino will be more known and of course, to entice and scout players.

I'm not really surprised that there are casinos and gambling sites willing to discuss the set up and the pay for advertising and shilling because surely, they get more than what they will pay for once many members will give in from a shilled post. As you can see, feedback is one of the most important things a player look into when finding a good gambling site. If the poster paid could execute a smooth talk and scout players, it's a win for them and the casino they are working for. Fortunately, we can criticize the posts and its author to make some warnings to other members and to disprove if something is really wrong.

[Lubcub62]

I applaud the ideas or experimental steps you take. This inspires me a little for your experimental steps. and this also proves the greater potential of this forum. their interest must also be justified. maybe those who responded also have an account on this forum or they see other good potential from this forum. this clearly opened my mind to introduce this forum more broadly as the experiment you did.