[Megathread] Bitcoin: What is missing for everyone to use btc on a daily basis?

[maikrothaman]

I think the appropriate title will be what is stopping BTC to use on daily basis based on the context you are proposed in you replies of this thread.

What stop me from using bitcoin is I can't find stores which accepts bitcoin rather than USD. i would love to see signs in the shop like BTC accepted here, government didn't made bitcoin as legal tender so its also not easy for the shops to accept it as which literally means government is stopping us from using BTC on a daily needs.

In the US, there are 30K websites that accept bitcoins. According to me, there is a gap in the protocol. What exactly, I'm not sure. awaiting your excellent responses.

[AverageGlabella]

I think the appropriate title will be what is stopping BTC to use on daily basis based on the context you are proposed in you replies of this thread.

What stop me from using bitcoin is I can't find stores which accepts bitcoin rather than USD. i would love to see signs in the shop like BTC accepted here, government didn't made bitcoin as legal tender so its also not easy for the shops to accept it as which literally means government is stopping us from using BTC on a daily needs.

Its a new currency it will eventually start being considered as legal tender in a lot of countries it makes sense for the governments to capitalize on it by taxing it and profiting from its use. Legal tender allows them to officially recognize it and tax it even further. It means that we will be getting taxed more on cryptocurrencies but I think that is the price we need to pay for it to become closer to mainstream currency.

[maikrothaman]

Its a new currency

BTC is no longer a "new currency," in my opinion.

[AverageGlabella]

I think the appropriate title will be what is stopping BTC to use on daily basis based on the context you are proposed in you replies of this thread.

What stop me from using bitcoin is I can't find stores which accepts bitcoin rather than USD. i would love to see signs in the shop like BTC accepted here, government didn't made bitcoin as legal tender so its also not easy for the shops to accept it as which literally means government is stopping us from using BTC on a daily needs.

In the US, there are 30K websites that accept bitcoins. According to me, there is a gap in the protocol. What exactly, I'm not sure. awaiting your excellent responses.

Out of interest what statistics are your using to get that information and what criteria do you need to meet to be included? Is it simply websites that include 'bitcoin accepted here' on their website? Seems a lot and I bet a lot of them are scams and not legitimate businesses.

[maikrothaman]

I think the appropriate title will be what is stopping BTC to use on daily basis based on the context you are proposed in you replies of this thread.

What stop me from using bitcoin is I can't find stores which accepts bitcoin rather than USD. i would love to see signs in the shop like BTC accepted here, government didn't made bitcoin as legal tender so its also not easy for the shops to accept it as which literally means government is stopping us from using BTC on a daily needs.

In the US, there are 30K websites that accept bitcoins. According to me, there is a gap in the protocol. What exactly, I'm not sure. awaiting your excellent responses.

Out of interest what statistics are your using to get that information and what criteria do you need to meet to be included? Is it simply websites that include 'bitcoin accepted here' on their website? Seems a lot and I bet a lot of them are scams and not legitimate businesses.

https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/how-many-businesses-accept-bitcoin/

Around 15,174 businesses worldwide accept Bitcoin. Aronud 2,300 of those businesses are located in the U.S.
As of April 2022, there are 36,659 Bitcoin ATMs available in the U.S.

[kryptqnick]

The thread is still fresh, so I wonder how the poll will turn out later. I chose price stability and scalability and speed. Anonymity is not a big concern for many people, and Bitcoin is giving a certain degree of anonymity as well. Physical coins might be important in case of countries with low cashless rate, but in others where people are very used to card payments it's alright. As for marketplaces, there are generally enough of those, and we wouldn't need marketplaces too much if people could pay with Bitcoin directly anyway. Going green is something that matters largely for Bitcoin as an investment but not as a currency. If it's used as money, then we should remember that people are fine with inflation of fiat, so money doesn't have to appreciate in value.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Simple questions: Bitcoin: What is missing for everyone to use btc on a daily basis?

You might be surprised, but: the need. I can't convince someone to use bitcoin if they don't care about censorship resistance, nearly instant, cheap transaction settlement and privacy if they don't care about any of those. Tell them about censorship resistance and they'll respond with "I'm not going to do anything suspicious / bad for PayPal to suspend my account". Tell them about instant transactions and they'll respond with "PayPal is fine". Tell them about the fees, and they'll respond with "Revolut charges me zero" (without minding the merchant). Tell them about privacy and... Lol. 

Now add the shitload amount of misinformation there is, the little demand, and the fluctuation in price.

[maikrothaman]

Simple questions: Bitcoin: What is missing for everyone to use btc on a daily basis?

You might be surprised, but: the need. I can't convince someone to use bitcoin if they don't care about censorship resistance, nearly instant, cheap transaction settlement and privacy if they don't care about any of those. Tell them about censorship resistance and they'll respond with "I'm not going to do anything suspicious / bad for PayPal to suspend my account". Tell them about instant transactions and they'll respond with "PayPal is fine". Tell them about the fees, and they'll respond with "Revolut charges me zero" (without minding the merchant). Tell them about privacy and... Lol. 

Now add the shitload amount of misinformation there is, the little demand, and the fluctuation in price.

For the time being, I believe cash to be superior to Bitcoin. But if they manage to get rid of the money, cryptocurrency—especially privacy coins—will take its place as the new money.

[BlackHatCoiner]

For the time being, I believe cash to be superior to Bitcoin. But if they manage to get rid of the money, cryptocurrency—especially privacy coins—will take its place as the new money.

That's the bet. Cryptocurrencies aren't going to be globally adopted until fiat currency is felt seriously and unreasonably debased. One scenario is that cash is repelled, and central banks introduce CBDC (which isn't as debased as cash, to attract). In fact, the central bank of EU has said this will happen in 2025, if I'm not mistaken.

Cash isn't superior to bitcoin, IMO. It usually annoys me to do the math for change when I'm out with friends. It's also easier to lose, and you don't have the history of your transactions (which is sometimes necessary).

[maikrothaman]

For the time being, I believe cash to be superior to Bitcoin. But if they manage to get rid of the money, cryptocurrency—especially privacy coins—will take its place as the new money.

That's the bet. Cryptocurrencies aren't going to be globally adopted until fiat currency is felt seriously and unreasonably debased. One scenario is that cash is repelled, and central banks introduce CBDC (which isn't as debased as cash, to attract). In fact, the central bank of EU has said this will happen in 2025, if I'm not mistaken.

Cash isn't superior to bitcoin, IMO. It usually annoys me to do the math for change when I'm out with friends. It's also easier to lose, and you don't have the history of your transactions (which is sometimes necessary).

I comprehend what you're saying. Nevertheless, the following are my top two justifications for choosing cash over, say, bitcoin.
1. quickly 5 second math change. Most people these days don't even practice change math.
2. extremely difficult to track. Due to centralized exchanges, Bitcoin suffers from poor untraceability for the majority of users.

I think the price of privacy coins will soar once cash is taken out of circulation because of this.

[Lucius]

I think you got the numbers wrong. In the US, everyone is aware of bitcoin.
---
89% of Americans heard about bitcoin
22% of Americans own bitcoin already

If you want to believe everything you read on the internet, that's your problem - it's more than inflated figures obtained from various researches paid for by companies dealing in cryptocurrency trading. The same source you cite also says that 106 million people own Bitcoin (data for 2021). If we turn it into numbers, then it means that of the 106 million owners of BTC, about 80% live in the US?

Start thinking with your own head and don't believe in various fairy tales - knowing about something and understanding something are two completely different things, not to mention owning it.

[BlackHatCoiner]

1. quickly 5 second math change. Most people these days don't even practice change math.

Actually, it's more of an uncomfortable situation rather than a "math" one. Some of you often don't carry cents, and you'll have to deal with the change after one of you has paid the merchant. Also, it's often difficult for small businesses to have lots of liquidity of banknotes and coins. You're not going to give a $50 banknote for a <$2 transaction, because it's just considered annoying from the merchant's part.

2. extremely difficult to track. Due to centralized exchanges, Bitcoin suffers from poor untraceability for the majority of users.

Well, if both you and the merchant use a centralized exchange, then yeah. But, if not, you're making it less trivial. Also, lightning network provides sufficient privacy for micro-transactions.

[jrrsparkles]

I think the appropriate title will be what is stopping BTC to use on daily basis based on the context you are proposed in you replies of this thread.

What stop me from using bitcoin is I can't find stores which accepts bitcoin rather than USD. i would love to see signs in the shop like BTC accepted here, government didn't made bitcoin as legal tender so its also not easy for the shops to accept it as which literally means government is stopping us from using BTC on a daily needs.

In the US, there are 30K websites that accept bitcoins. According to me, there is a gap in the protocol. What exactly, I'm not sure. awaiting your excellent responses.

It can even be 100K websites but as you asked why we are not using BTC as regular currency like our bills the reason I mentioned is clear we are lacking the physical stores from accepting BTC.

Even now you can almost spent BTC on any website by converting it into gift cards and use the gift card to buy on any website but its more complicated when someone who is using fiat so they won't be convinced to use BTC instead of Fiat.

[maikrothaman]

1. quickly 5 second math change. Most people these days don't even practice change math.

Actually, it's more of an uncomfortable situation rather than a "math" one. Some of you often don't carry cents, and you'll have to deal with the change after one of you has paid the merchant. Also, it's often difficult for small businesses to have lots of liquidity of banknotes and coins. You're not going to give a $50 banknote for a <$2 transaction, because it's just considered annoying from the merchant's part.

2. extremely difficult to track. Due to centralized exchanges, Bitcoin suffers from poor untraceability for the majority of users.

Well, if both you and the merchant use a centralized exchange, then yeah. But, if not, you're making it less trivial. Also, lightning network provides sufficient privacy for micro-transactions.

It is very difficult to move millions of dollars with cash, which is the only justification I would accept for why it is bad.

[Z-tight]

It is very difficult to move millions of dollars with cash, which is the only justification I would accept for why it is bad.

There is no need to try and make justifications as to why cash is bad, or why it should be replaced by BTC, which it won't. BTC is more of a second option to fiat currencies, so it won't replace fiat, BTC users don't even predict a replacement of fiat by BTC.

Instead of trying to justify why fiat is bad, i would try to focus on the justification for which BTC is great as a currency, many BTC users use fiat because they don't have any choice, so their second currency is comfortably BTC, which gives them a choice to control things themselves, no third party, no censorship or possibility of confiscation, just the owner of the funds controlling the usage. People who use centralized exchanges are using BTC like fiat and the banks, BTC ought to be used through self custody, with trading through a decentralized exchange.

[maikrothaman]

It is very difficult to move millions of dollars with cash, which is the only justification I would accept for why it is bad.

There is no need to try and make justifications as to why cash is bad, or why it should be replaced by BTC, which it won't. BTC is more of a second option to fiat currencies, so it won't replace fiat, BTC users don't even predict a replacement of fiat by BTC.

Instead of trying to justify why fiat is bad, i would try to focus on the justification for which BTC is great as a currency, many BTC users use fiat because they don't have any choice, so their second currency is comfortably BTC, which gives them a choice to control things themselves, no third party, no censorship or possibility of confiscation, just the owner of the funds controlling the usage. People who use centralized exchanges are using BTC like fiat and the banks, BTC ought to be used through self custody, with trading through a decentralized exchange.

Though I understand what you're saying, bitcoiners should try to find a way to destroy fiat money.

[BlackHatCoiner]

many BTC users use fiat because they don't have any choice

I wouldn't say so. They do have choices. They just don't care, or don't want to. Users even of this forum sometimes prefer paying with fiat currency over bitcoin, and that's totally acceptable, but let alone ordinary people.

Though I understand what you're saying, bitcoiners should try to find a way to destroy fiat money.

Don't be fanatic. Bitcoin isn't backed by violence neither by coercion, remember.

[franky1]

with the assumed numbers posted in this topic of 16,000 businesses and 100m users

we recently seen an event caused by just one business creating alot of congestion. which shows bitcoin* needs to SCALE BITCOIN*

bitcoin is only currently averaging 1.9k tx a block
=273,600 payments a day
meaning a daily use for only ~275k people/businesses

certain people of subnetwork idolisms have been seen shouting "just wait a week it will calm down". or "just pay more fee" to prolong the congestion by getting ahead of the congestion.
however thats not solving anything. its just delaying daily utility and costing people more then a US coffee or an african weeks wage

this has due to not scaling bitcoin* for years, lead to an over promise of utility of custodial services(exchanges) and altnet middlemen multisig networks being used as the 'solution'
but both of these come with many flaws, and risks
and the obvious,(those altnets and services are not bitcoin. but bitcoin emulators, brand stealers, catfish, when people play with their value on these risky services/subnetworks)

we see their attempts to break bitcoin, saying:
its unfit/cant scale due to[insert lame excuse such as]:
 -1990's floppy disk limitations(facepalm)
 -1990's dial-up speed limitations(facepalm)
its not demanded, due to:
 - only one person discussing it(facepalm)
 - no one wants it (facepalm)

and then trying to get their favoured sponsored devs to only develop code that makes it harder to use bitcoin and easy to offramp to some subnetwork/custodian

these custodian, middle men subnetworks are the crutch where those offering the crutch are saying bitcoin is the broken leg, where infact the ones offering the crutch are the same people trying to break bitcoins leg, so that it cant run, while saying that bitcoin cant and should not run.

those that adore and support middlemen subnetworks/custodian services pretend there is no one apart from one person that wants bitcoin* to expand in its utility
yet this topic of lots of individuals wanting BITCOIN* to scale to get more adoption (ignoring the couple of people yet again maliciously promoting a subnetwork)

* emphasis on the bitcoin network part, not some other promoted service/subnetwork emulating/catfishing bitcoin brand.