Explanation on Bitcoin Fees

[maitre.spark]

Better you read this topic as it contains more information and has a read-worthy discussion- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5452900
As a hardware wallet, offering recovery service is a stupid idea. It totally dismisses the idea of storing your private key safely. Well, I'm using Ledger and Safepal for a quite long time now.

Ok, i will read it when enough time.
But what about if u don't subscribe/register to this "recovery service"

However, it's always better to use a secured and trusted one like Trezor. Who knows what Ledger is doing inside lol.

Who knows what Trezor is doing inside 

[Stalker22]

Better you read this topic as it contains more information and has a read-worthy discussion- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5452900
As a hardware wallet, offering recovery service is a stupid idea. It totally dismisses the idea of storing your private key safely. Well, I'm using Ledger and Safepal for a quite long time now.

Ok, i will read it when enough time.
But what about if u don't subscribe/register to this "recovery service"

According to Ledger, they claim nothing changes for you, and your private keys should be safe inside the device. But we have lost trust in them because they lied before.

However, it's always better to use a secured and trusted one like Trezor. Who knows what Ledger is doing inside lol.

Who knows what Trezor is doing inside 

Trezor (and some other hardware wallets) has open source software, which means anyone can check exactly what it is doing inside.

[Cricktor]

<snip>

You bought a hardware wallet with an opaque closed-source firmware. Ledger lied that your seed can't leave the secure element chip. Their paid recovery service funnels your seed through your online computer to three companies which then hold shards of your seed. It's closed-source firmware software that controls what the button presses do or not do. The secure element chip is not controlled by the Ledger NoNo's buttons, another microcontroller deals with the buttons and the display and commands the secure element. It's programmable and it's a black box, horray.

Who knows what Trezor is doing inside 

At least it's open-source and if it had reproducible builds of the firmware (not sure at the moment if it has), you could check exactly and confidently what Trezor's code does and what not. Trezor even shows hardware schematics, parts lists and how the hardware is made. Try to find this at Ledger.


Anyway, I digress already.

[maitre.spark]

At least it's open-source and if it had reproducible builds of the firmware (not sure at the moment if it has), you could check exactly and confidently what Trezor's code does and what not. Trezor even shows hardware schematics, parts lists and how the hardware is made. Try to find this at Ledger.

Trezor (and some other hardware wallets) has open source software, which means anyone can check exactly what it is doing inside.

Oh ok, i understand now, and i didn't know that before to buy it ...
But with the Hardware schematics and the open source firmware it's more easy for an hacker to find a breach, no?

You bought a hardware wallet with an opaque closed-source firmware. Ledger lied that your seed can't leave the secure element chip. Their paid recovery service funnels your seed through your online computer to three companies which then hold shards of your seed. It's closed-source firmware software that controls what the button presses do or not do. The secure element chip is not controlled by the Ledger NoNo's buttons, another microcontroller deals with the buttons and the display and commands the secure element. It's programmable and it's a black box, horray.

According to Ledger, they claim nothing changes for you, and your private keys should be safe inside the device. But we have lost trust in them because they lied before.

So you tell me the private key can be extracted online by Ledger and i understand the problem.
But until now they never stole the cryptos on it, right? and there was never a problem with this?

i heard that a lot of people have a Ledger Hardware Wallet ...

So now does my cryptos are more secure on the Ledger or on an Exchange?

[o_e_l_e_o]

Now i think 18.05€ it's because of the change between $ / €, 20$ -> 18.05€ ( i guess ).
I don't know who paid this associated €5.23 transaction fee. Probably Ledger or his partner.

I would point out that talking about fees in euros or dollars is pointless, given the exchange rate between these currencies and bitcoin fluctuates constantly. It is much more useful to talk about fees in terms of satoshis, or even better, satoshis per virtual byte, or sats/vbyte. This is how many sats in fees is being paid for each virtual byte of space the transaction takes up. This is the number which miners use to prioritize transactions, not the flat fee in any fiat currency.


I'd also point out that Trezor openly fund and cooperate with blockchain analysis, so their devices are a very poor replacement for Ledger.

[Z-tight]

But with the Hardware schematics and the open source firmware it's more easy for an hacker to find a breach, no?

Open source simply means that the code is verifiable. If an attacker wants to create a scam version of the wallet for example, they do not need the original code, all they are going to do is design their scam version with the logo and name of the wallet and use their own malicious code, and so they can do this for an open or closed source wallet. Why an open source wallet is more secure is that you can verify the code of the wallet you downloaded or bought before using it.

But until now they never stole the cryptos on it, right? and there was never a problem with this?

People do not have to lose money through this service before you do what's right. It is a wrong way to store the seed phrase to your funds, and if something goes wrong in the future you'll regret why you didn't use a different wallet.

So now does my cryptos are more secure on the Ledger or on an Exchange?

Never use an exchange wallet to store your funds. This would not have even been a discussion before this recovery service was announced. In Ledger you have the keys to your funds and the seed phrase, and you don't have to opt in for their recovery service, so it is many times better than keeping funds in an exchange, but there are other recommended hardware wallets you can use instead, or just create your own air-gapped wallet.

[BVeyron]

Good morning,
I'm new here, and new in the crypto world.

Earlier this year I opened an account with Kraken and bought some Bitcoins and some Etherums.
A few months ago I also bought a Ledger key (with $20 offered in bitcoin)

Since I made a first transfer of Bitcoins (for test) from my Kraken account to "Ledger Live"

Transfer n°1: 100€, Kraken Fee: 0.00020 BTC (about 5€), Arrived on "Ledger Live" Fee: 0.00019023 BTC (4,708€)
blockstream.info: SEGWIT FEE SAVINGS This transaction saved 27% on fees by upgrading to native SegWit-Bech32

Transfer n°2: 1900€, Kraken Fee: 0.00020 BTC (about 5€), Arrived on "Ledger Live" Fee: 0.00038385 BTC (9.282€)
blockstream.info: SEGWIT FEE SAVINGS This transaction saved 17% on fees by upgrading to native SegWit-Bech32

I claim my $20 of Bitcoin Offer: Arrived on "Ledger Live" €18.05 Fee: 0.00021581 BTC (€5.23)
blockstream.info: SEGWIT FEE SAVINGS This transaction saved 5% on fees by upgrading to native SegWit-Bech32

Do all these Fees seem normal for you?
But above all, why in Transaction n°2 I paid quazi double 0.00038385 BTC instead of 0.00020 BTC? (I have a screenshot that shows 0.00020 BTC of Fee before clicking on send in Kraken)

Should I contact Kraken, or there are other Fees added "after Kraken" in the transaction process ?

I don't understand.
Thank you.

There's been a tremendous rise in transaction fees some weeks ago. It happened due to NFT-minters attack. By now, the system has returned to acceptable fees. That attack also lowered the speed of transactions, most of them became very slow...

[ImThour]

hosseinimr93 explained perfectly. The fee which you paid was shown on the Exchange's User Interface, not in the Block explorer. The fee which is shown in the Block Explorer is the fee which is paid by Kraken for all the transactions in that particular batch. So, no need to contact them as they just charged you what they showed on the website. It's a pretty nominal fee though.

[jrrsparkles]

The topic is obsolete now since OP knows where he made mistakes in the calculation.

But do we still need something to Differentiate between transaction fee and withdrawal fee.

If someone have time and better Post formatting skills can create a dedicated topic between the difference which will serve as reference for someone who has confusion like OP.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

I didn't know about this "recovery service", i am not registered into it.
What's the main problem with it?

I don't want to share how I feel about it and influence you when you think freely. I wanted to give the piece of information so that you can do your own diligence. You are now with the best bitcoin people and you will learn the good things very soon if you decide to stay with us for rest of your life 😉

[Stalker22]

Trezor (and some other hardware wallets) has open source software, which means anyone can check exactly what it is doing inside.

Oh ok, i understand now, and i didn't know that before to buy it ...
But with the Hardware schematics and the open source firmware it's more easy for an hacker to find a breach, no?

I would say no. The open source concept has been around for decades, and it has proven to be a good solution. Since anyone can examine the code, it's easier to identify and fix bugs or security vulnerabilities. For example, the Linux operating system has become increasingly popular. Would you say that it is more or less secure than proprietary and closed-source software like Windows?

i heard that a lot of people have a Ledger Hardware Wallet ...

Yes, they do. Ledger has been one of the most popular hardware wallet choices for years. Things change… I have heard that many people today are opting for alternative solutions.

So now does my cryptos are more secure on the Ledger or on an Exchange?

It is kinda like trying to decide if you should keep your money in a safe that someone else might have access to, or give it to a stranger to hold onto. A tough choice.

[o_e_l_e_o]

So now does my cryptos are more secure on the Ledger or on an Exchange?

Although the best option would either be your own cold storage or a Passport hardware wallet, I would definitely still keep your coins on your Ledger over a centralized exchange.

I think the best way to approach this would be to initialize your Ledger, update it, and install the bitcoin app, all via Ledger Live as normal. Make sure you don't go anywhere near enabling Ledger Recover. Once you've done that, uninstall Ledger Live and use your Ledger exclusively via some open source third party software such as Electrum or Sparrow. Use one or more passphrases. Although not ideal, doing this reduces the risk from Ledger Recover to a minimum, and it is still far safer than using a centralized exchange.