Proof of Person?

[iamnotback]

Not only does it permanently obviate centrality

Incorrect. People can lease themselves to a whale.

This is a great point. But I imagine that since decisions would still be made by 51%, to obtain this volume of persons to lease themselves would be impossible if there were even a small uptake of such a currency.

In reality people are very apathetic about voting, especially if you are going to force them to do PoP again or expect them to still have access to their private keys. People lose access, so they will need to prove PoP again, which they would need a strong incentive to do (such as getting paid to vote in an election). So the ones who are serious about dominating elections need control over only a small percentage of the potential voters.

Also leasing voters for an election doesn't mean those voters need to be leased for every election. Voters who don't really understand or care about the details of what is being voted on for a particular election are ripe for being bought off for that specific election.

[iamnotback]

Regarding attacker bots tricking individuals, this is hardly a refutation of such a system, similar to saying that e-mail is not viable due to phishing attacks, or even that bitcoin is not viable due to software that mimics the bitcoin software. One could say that even ethereum, litecoin, and monero have these problems, because when one goes to any of those websites, it could be a malicious copycat website.

You are erroneously equating situations which are not at all analogous. An apt analogy is the veracity of a CAPTCHA insuring a bot is not accessing the web resource. And it is a fact that bots trick (or pay) humans to fool millions of CAPTCHAs.

Phishing of email or other resource the user wants is not going to work in most cases because the user will realize at some point that the resource he/she wants was not correctly obtained. Whereas, having a user to complete a CAPTCHA which is for another website before giving the user what he/she wants, is not going to dissuade most users.

 

Regarding the HumanIQ project, those are specific criticisms of that system.

Yes I did make some specific criticisms of the HumanIQ design which are orthogonal to our discussion.

A proof of person does not have to be always tied to a device, or the hacker getting access to funds by impersonating the individual. Eg, imagine that after the one-time proof of identity occurs, a set of private keys are created. If someone impersonated that individual in the future (eg, with your malicious capcha example, which is also less likely if the proof of identity is a one-time affair), they would not gain access to the private keys.

Then if they've lost their private keys, they can't get access again employing their PoP.

And the masses will lose their private keys. Sheesh are you not aware that most people create a new Facebook account when they can't remember their password. This happens quite often, which is they they end using a password that is easy to crack using a dictionary attack such as "1234mydogSpot".

You mention the false positive rate with using voice ID. But if voice ID was combined with another method, the 1% or 0.1% rates of theft fall astronomically.

All of the biometrics can be fooled with unacceptably high EER with synthetic attacks, even if combined. Did you not see the example I cited where tailor made eye glasses could fool face recognition. That is if we are using as a proof to reset private keys, which is what HumanIQ proposed.

Automated PoP has too high of an EER. The only way to do PoP is with a human interrogator which is trusted. But then you throw decentralization out the window and introduce human subjectivity and error.

[ulhaq]

Then if they've lost their private keys, they can't get access again employing their PoP.

And the masses will lose their private keys. Sheesh are you not aware that most people create a new Facebook account when they can't remember their password. This happens quite often, which is they they end using a password that is easy to crack using a dictionary attack such as "1234mydogSpot".

Of course, but this is no different with bitcoin and altcoins. Initially people will lose private keys and any money associated with them, but in the long run, people will learn from their mistakes. Third party solutions will come up, including storage of private keys. It will be a weighing of risk and benefit. People already use services like mint which store all their bank passwords.

In the long run, I believe such an approach is superior to adulterating a product in order to allow it to be easily used by the masses.

[iamnotback]

Then if they've lost their private keys, they can't get access again employing their PoP.

And the masses will lose their private keys. Sheesh are you not aware that most people create a new Facebook account when they can't remember their password. This happens quite often, which is they they end using a password that is easy to crack using a dictionary attack such as "1234mydogSpot".

Of course, but this is no different with bitcoin and altcoins.

But HumanIQ claimed some amazing breakthrough where billions of masses wouldn't have to deal with private keys and could sign transactions with only their face. Which is BS.

[Bipedaljoe]

If proof of person (but not identity - in other words, maintaining anonymity) was achievable, then would it be superior to PoW and PoS in that a 51% majority (to make any changes to the currency) based on individuals is superior to basing it on mining power or holdings?

This was solved between 2015 and 2018 by myself. My system is the logical way to do proof of unique human. Based on the prior work by Bryan Ford from MIT and his Pseudonym Parties, but does them over video (thus solving the fake region problem his offline/physical meetups system had). It is fully anonymous, stores absolutely no personal data, knows absolutely nothing about anyone. It is not resistant to 51% attacks though, it actually breaks at 33% collusion attacks. But, for 8 billion users, that'd be 2.7 billion people colluding to destroy the system. The system was fully implemented by 2020/2021 sometime, the whitepaper contains the full source code and definitions, and has been downloaded by thousands of people and viewed by tens of thousands. The system is very transactions per second heavy though, they need a platform that is at least around 50k transactions per second.

The whitepaper for the system is published on https://bitpeople.org.