What are your experiences with NGRAVE wallet?

[WeThePe0ple]

I've been advised to keep my BTC with an air gapped cold storage wallet.
I have a ledger nano x device but I am not going to use it because of the seed phrase debacle.

Now I've been advised to either go for coldcard or NGRAVE.
It was a close decision but I've chosen Ngrave because of the customer service (they are located in my country) and the fact that other coins than BTC can be held on it.

What are your experiences with it?

I've paid almost 500€ for it (graphene included), which may be overkill for a 0.3 BTC account. But I plan to grow my portfolio throughout the years and I want maximum security. Are there any things I have to watch out for?

[BitMaxz]

Ngrave does not have open-source code and the developer said on their website they gradually release the open-source code but you shouldn't trust any hardware that does not have any open-source code because we don't know how this wallet works.

If your plan is just to hold BTC a cold storage PC is enough to hold BTC you don't need to spend to buy a hardware wallet or you can make a USB stick as a cold storage wallet using Tails OS.

But if you want a hard wallet that supports multiple coins find the open-source hardware wallet listed from this link below.

- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288971.0

For me, I can not trust Ngrave with my assets because it does not have open-source and it's pretty new to me.

[SFR10]

I've chosen Ngrave because of the customer service (they are located in my country)

The latter part is not always a good thing ^{[e.g. if their database gets hacked by a local hacker, you'll become an easy target]}!

• and the fact that other coins than BTC can be held on it.
  

  It's worth noting that the above line means there's a larger attack surface in the equation!
  

Are there any things I have to watch out for?

If you're using the firmware v1.4 that introduced the passphrase feature earlier in the month, only use it if you fully understand it ^{[I've seen a lot of users who lost access to their wallets because of this feature]}.

[JeromeTash]

If it's not open source then it's not worth your time and money because while you think it's a hardware wallet that should be safer compared to web and software wallets, your money is still at risk.

It was a close decision but I've chosen Ngrave because of the customer service (they are located in my country)

Why would you need customer care if it is a self-custody wallet where you just deposit and HODL your coins?

[dkbit98]

Now I've been advised to either go for coldcard or NGRAVE.
It was a close decision but I've chosen Ngrave because of the customer service (they are located in my country) and the fact that other coins than BTC can be held on it.

I would not waste money on both of those hardware wallets.
Ngrave is way to expensive, it is closed source device and it is not offering anything special in terms of security and safety.
Coldcard is also not open source, but source avaialble, and it is owned and operated by mentally ill hater called nvk, who keep retiring old wallet versions because they are unsafe for usage.

I've paid almost 500€ for it (graphene included), which may be overkill for a 0.3 BTC account. But I plan to grow my portfolio throughout the years and I want maximum security. Are there any things I have to watch out for?

To late now to ask questions like this when you already spent your money  

[WeThePe0ple]

Now I've been advised to either go for coldcard or NGRAVE.
It was a close decision but I've chosen Ngrave because of the customer service (they are located in my country) and the fact that other coins than BTC can be held on it.

I would not waste money on both of those hardware wallets.
Ngrave is way to expensive, it is closed source device and it is not offering anything special in terms of security and safety.
Coldcard is also not open source, but source avaialble, and it is owned and operated by mentally ill hater called nvk, who keep retiring old wallet versions because they are unsafe for usage.

I've paid almost 500€ for it (graphene included), which may be overkill for a 0.3 BTC account. But I plan to grow my portfolio throughout the years and I want maximum security. Are there any things I have to watch out for?

To late now to ask questions like this when you already spent your money 

There is a 30 day return policy and I am 10 days into it.
I went for Ngrave because an experienced investor in my country recommended it. He owns 3 wallets and this is one of them.

He said that the seed phrase generator is unique. And that the closed source chip is coming at some point.
I chose this because I can store multiple altcoins on it and I appreciated customer support. It also says they hold the highest security level certificate, which I assumed to be genuine because of the price tag.
I already have a Ledger nano x and then the scandal came out. Now it looks like I have to dump this one too


Can anyone explain to me why an air gapped wallet with the highest security certificate is not safe?

I have been told that only the chip (on which coins are saved) is not open source. But how does this work? Does it mean that from a distance my coins can be attacked? This device is not connected to the internet

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[dkbit98]

He said that the seed phrase generator is unique. And that the closed source chip is coming at some point.
I chose this because I can store multiple altcoins on it and I appreciated customer support. It also says they hold the highest security level certificate, which I assumed to be genuine because of the price tag.

You mean open source chip right?
That doesn't mean anything for you because your devices is closed source, and you would need to physically remove and replace chip, that is almost impossible to work without breaking something.

I already have a Ledger nano x and then the scandal came out. Now it looks like I have to dump this one too

You can do whatever you want, don't listen to me and do some actual research before buying hardware wallets.

Can anyone explain to me why an air gapped wallet with the highest security certificate is not safe?

This is just a number and it means nothing to you.
Ledger and other hardware wallets also have similar security certificate level.

[WeThePe0ple]

You mean open source chip right?

I did

You can do whatever you want, don't listen to me and do some actual research before buying hardware wallets.

Of course I did my research. But opinions differ and I am not the most tech savvy investor.

Coinbureau did a thorough analysis of the wallet. It was not in their video on top 5 of coldstorage wallets because they had not reviewed this prior to releasing the video. But they are very positive about it. Particularly the way the seed is generated, is unique and guarantees that there is no backdoor. For the other cold storage wallets, I am not convinced of this. If NGRAVE is bad, I wonder why it has the highest security certificate.

https://www.coinbureau.com/review/ngrave-zero-hardware-wallet/

[SFR10]

It also says they hold the highest security level certificate, which I assumed to be genuine because of the price tag.

If NGRAVE is bad, I wonder why it has the highest security certificate.

I've seen these lines in multiple parts of their website but unfortunately, it's somewhat misleading ^{[they're putting emphasis on something (secure firmware grading of EAL7, as opposed to their secure element grading of EAL5+) that other manufacturers don't even publish anything about it]}, but just ignore everything that I said and focus in the following part:

• Let's assume that their so-called secure OS was indeed very secure, then why they're still afraid to make it open-source with "zero-day vulnerabilities" excuses ^{[more than two years have passed since its launch date, but there's still nothing]}?

[dkbit98]

Coinbureau did a thorough analysis of the wallet. It was not in their video on top 5 of coldstorage wallets because they had not reviewed this prior to releasing the video. But they are very positive about it. Particularly the way the seed is generated, is unique and guarantees that there is no backdoor. For the other cold storage wallets, I am not convinced of this. If NGRAVE is bad, I wonder why it has the highest security certificate.

Note that Coinbureau is making paid crypto reviews and articles, posting ref links on his website, etc.
He also earns percentage of every Ngrave wallet sold from his link, and that is much more than he would get from some cheap wallet.
I would never recommend anyone to buy any closed source hardware wallet, and there is nothing super-special about Ngrave seed generation,
and I researched seed generation in most hardware wallets here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5317199.0

Let's assume that their so-called secure OS was indeed very secure, then why they're still afraid to make it open-source

Same reason why ledger is not doing it... I am sure many people would discover a bunch of flaws and exploits, showing how ''secure'' this devices really are (not).